924 GTR
11-22-2008, 01:43 AM
#31
Rennlist Member
wow...that is incredible. As others have mentioned, an incredible amount of quality hardware and carefully thought out engineering. The ONLY thing I could find that surprised me was why the muffler wasn't wrapped in header wrap as well...given where it is, unless there's some heatshielding we can't see, I would imagine that the heat could damage the fiberglass there.
other than that though, i want one haha
other than that though, i want one haha
11-22-2008, 06:25 AM
#32
If someone would list the components that can be bought (f.ex from Kinsley) and what needs to fabricated I am sure there would a be a lot of S2 / 968 owners who'd be interested. I am for sure!
11-25-2008, 01:08 AM
#35
Rocket Scientist
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
I met this owner at Blackhawk. Last year? Not sure. Real nice guy. He asked if I would hop in the car and hold the brake while he torqued the center locks to 300 ft lbs. I didn't mind helping him out and sneeking around the interior for some ideas, lol. The craftsmanship of the car is incredible. The 'race' panels fit like a street car. One of those 'must see to appreciate' type.
11-25-2008, 01:19 AM
#36
Rennlist Member
What a great car.
FWIW w.r.t. ITB's, there's a LOT of tuning involved. I wouldn't want to do it w/o a proper method of tuning. Additionally, where the injector is located w.r.t. the TB opening is also a very important issue -- it affects how well the fuel atomizes. I would steer clear of 'Busa TB's, due to their smaller diameter (too small for these motors I would think). Also, they incorporate a secondary set of throttle bodies which you'd have to deal with. These secondary TBs aid with low-end flow characteristics.
If you want to learn more about ITB setups on 4-bangers, check out the Formula Atlantic series. The 1600cc 4AG motor found in the MR2 can be built to make 260 hp reliably (granted, you'll only get around 1000 miles out of one, but hey -- it's a race motor). They've been incorporating ITBs for years.
FWIW w.r.t. ITB's, there's a LOT of tuning involved. I wouldn't want to do it w/o a proper method of tuning. Additionally, where the injector is located w.r.t. the TB opening is also a very important issue -- it affects how well the fuel atomizes. I would steer clear of 'Busa TB's, due to their smaller diameter (too small for these motors I would think). Also, they incorporate a secondary set of throttle bodies which you'd have to deal with. These secondary TBs aid with low-end flow characteristics.
If you want to learn more about ITB setups on 4-bangers, check out the Formula Atlantic series. The 1600cc 4AG motor found in the MR2 can be built to make 260 hp reliably (granted, you'll only get around 1000 miles out of one, but hey -- it's a race motor). They've been incorporating ITBs for years.
11-25-2008, 10:13 AM
#37
Nordschleife Master
I am looking for an engine tuned "in between" crazy and OE.
C.
11-25-2008, 11:51 AM
#39
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Looks like a 911-based trans? Definitely not the original GTR trans.
11-25-2008, 07:56 PM
#40
Intermediate
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Central Coast, California
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For the tuning issue, what abuot MegaSquirt? I know it's inexpensive, but that doesn't mean its cheap... I have a Volvo 245 GLT, and everyone on the Volvo board uses MS if they want to get more out of it.
Almost everything you need you can get from DIYautotune.com:
MSII build yourself kit from DIYautotune (I think it has all or most sensors with the kit).....$250
CPU Tester (stimulator) if you build CPU yourself.....$70 (prebuilt CPU $400...doesn't really need tester)
Innovate 02 sensor + data logging.....$200
Handful of mods and misc items.....<$150
300Hp 944s2 with a custom tuned motor.....priceless
Not everything is necessary, but recomended, and there is a cheaper alternative, MSI, but it does not to spark ignition and doesn't have quite as big of a map. MSII has 12 x 12 fuel, 12 x 12 spark, and can do knock sense/retard, boost control, water injection, nitrous injection, the whole works. From what i hear on the volvo site, it's as good as the expensive units and it isn't actually that tough to do as long as you are willing to go through the steps, do the research, and actually try to learn something. MS even has its own forum, where much like here, they are willing to give you any help you need as long as you have done your homework.
Almost everything you need you can get from DIYautotune.com:
MSII build yourself kit from DIYautotune (I think it has all or most sensors with the kit).....$250
CPU Tester (stimulator) if you build CPU yourself.....$70 (prebuilt CPU $400...doesn't really need tester)
Innovate 02 sensor + data logging.....$200
Handful of mods and misc items.....<$150
300Hp 944s2 with a custom tuned motor.....priceless
Not everything is necessary, but recomended, and there is a cheaper alternative, MSI, but it does not to spark ignition and doesn't have quite as big of a map. MSII has 12 x 12 fuel, 12 x 12 spark, and can do knock sense/retard, boost control, water injection, nitrous injection, the whole works. From what i hear on the volvo site, it's as good as the expensive units and it isn't actually that tough to do as long as you are willing to go through the steps, do the research, and actually try to learn something. MS even has its own forum, where much like here, they are willing to give you any help you need as long as you have done your homework.
11-25-2008, 08:42 PM
#43
Rennlist Member
Oh ****! I just realized I've seen this car in person! It was all white and had simple decals on it (running #25, and GT2 and the TRQ stuff) but this was the car. I had to go back and look through my pictures.
I saw it this summer running at Road America for the June Sprints. The driver was busy so we didn't get to chat (and I was busy doing my job so I couldn't chat either) but it's a really cool car. Unfortunately the car wasn't doing so well.
I saw it this summer running at Road America for the June Sprints. The driver was busy so we didn't get to chat (and I was busy doing my job so I couldn't chat either) but it's a really cool car. Unfortunately the car wasn't doing so well.
11-25-2008, 09:01 PM
#44
Rainman
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
350 is just a number. it is the peak amount of power available from the engine for a very brief moment in the powerband. trying to get 350HP from an engine this displacement requires the ability to rev very high. a chevy V8 that makes 350HP does it easy because of the sheer size of the motor, nearly twice the displacement.
350HP from a 3L is nearly 120 HP/L. few cars have such an impressive number, the only one that comes to mind is the Honda S2000, 240HP from 2L. however, notice how that engine makes its peak power at just below 8000RPM? driving around town in an S2000 you have to rev it alot higher than most cars just to get moving because the torque band is so high up. the S2000 makes more HP than a 944 turbo yet the turbo is at least as fast a car, because power is available sooner.
the standard 3L engine you can barely lift it above idle in first gear and the car will take off with no problems whatsoever because of the available torque due to the size of the engine and its configuration. but in order for such an engine to rev higher other components have to be changed; the enormous heavy crankshaft would need extreme balancing and lightening, balance shafts probably deleted, pistons and rods all need to be weightmatched, the valvetrain needs to be lightened and strengthened, and the cams need to be changed for new cams that can flow air at those high speeds. the stock cam and valvetrain on a 944 would probably last over 7000RPM but it wouldnt make any power simply because the camshaft cant flow enough air. driveability is made from compromising peak HP with available torque and actual usable HP.
350HP from a 3L is nearly 120 HP/L. few cars have such an impressive number, the only one that comes to mind is the Honda S2000, 240HP from 2L. however, notice how that engine makes its peak power at just below 8000RPM? driving around town in an S2000 you have to rev it alot higher than most cars just to get moving because the torque band is so high up. the S2000 makes more HP than a 944 turbo yet the turbo is at least as fast a car, because power is available sooner.
the standard 3L engine you can barely lift it above idle in first gear and the car will take off with no problems whatsoever because of the available torque due to the size of the engine and its configuration. but in order for such an engine to rev higher other components have to be changed; the enormous heavy crankshaft would need extreme balancing and lightening, balance shafts probably deleted, pistons and rods all need to be weightmatched, the valvetrain needs to be lightened and strengthened, and the cams need to be changed for new cams that can flow air at those high speeds. the stock cam and valvetrain on a 944 would probably last over 7000RPM but it wouldnt make any power simply because the camshaft cant flow enough air. driveability is made from compromising peak HP with available torque and actual usable HP.