Ecos

Hello all,

I recently bought my first Porsche, a 1987 944s, and I'm really enjoying it but like others I've found it to be a bit underpowered.

How much HP is possible from these engines N/A? I've seen people selling 8v engines with claims over 220hp, is this possible with the 16v? Can I get more or less? I'm not looking for super high horsepower since this will just be my daily driver and I would be happy with around 220-230 I think.

If I decide to keep this engine I WILL be doing a complete rebuild of it so I can do work on the internals.

Does anyone sell performance cams for the 16v? All I'm seeing are for the 8v.

So far I'm considering knife edging the crank, putting performance cams in, underdrive pulleys, cold air intake (right now it's using a cone style the previous owner put in..sucking in hot air), a hotter ignition, lightweight flywheel, low flow muffler (cat has already been eliminated) and chipping it. And of course shedding some weight...but not too much since this will be my daily driver and I would like to keep it looking good still...so carpet, backseats, etc remain.

Does the 16v respond well to porting/polishing, and other head work?

Does anyone have any more recommendations?

This car will be my daily driver, will not be raced in any classes, and I'm not concerned about emissions testing.

My other options would to be turbo this, sell this and buy a 944t, or do a ls1 hybrid. Out of those 3 I would probably go with the hybrid since I love the ls1 but its a bit overkill for my goal. I don't need 300hp.

CPR

Well first off, welcome to Rennlist!

In my opinion, I would just buy a 951 (944t).

Tenacious_G

Yup! Three easy steps to making your NA 944 faster:


1. Sell your NA 944.
2. Buy a 944 Turbo
3. Weeeee.

schwank

The one S I know that has many aftermarket parts and is highly tuned put down 211hp at the wheels. You might just see it in Excellence one of these months soon.

Getting that power out of an NA 8v would be insanely expensive if doable. I just don't see how you could increase the power almost 50%.

V2Rocket

the easy way out is to buy a turbo. but really itd be nice to see someone actually try to build their NA.

you seem to have the right idea going by lightening everything up which is even more beneficial to the slightly higher revving 16v motor. you may find with a good chip you could make power over 7000RPM but youd need a cam designed to flow at that speed.

something that would be incredibly expensive and difficult to do but fun would be trying to retrofit the variocam system of the 968 to the 944S. it is an early variable valve timing system that uses a hydraulically adjustable chain tensioner to alter the intake timing. that might help you towards your goals

tifosiman

Here's my opinion, for what its worth.

For the money that you would have to drop into this car, you are better off just selling it and purchasing a 944turbo (aka 951) or a 944S2. Decent examples can be had for between $7K and $10K for non-951S models. You will spend more than that easily on any real HP mods for your 944S (that includes motorwork, and/or a turbo, or even an LS1 swap), and that doesn't include the uprated suspension/brakes/trans you would need to handle that. 951's, if not molested and well-taken care of, are decently reliable cars. Probably moreso than what your franken-944S would be once done.

And another thing. Any 20something year old German sports car shouldn't be looked upon as a daily driver. These cars are getting up there in years and should be looked upon as a toy or weekend plaything at best. I wouldn't want to count on one daily to get me to my job and appointments.

Welcome to Rennlist!

V2Rocket

i have to disagree here; so long as it is kept maintained (oil changes, carwashes etc) it should probably run for a long time, you just need to be prepared for when things WILL go wrong.

however ive used mine as a daily driver for over 2 years and its never so much as hiccuped. theres been a few events where things got complicated simply because of age of certain parts (original fuel filter on the car clogged, 70,000 miles and 24 years later)

rmconner80

Web Cam Inc. has two performance grinds available for the 16V 2.5L. I'd be curious to see how much power either adds. If you're rebuilding it anyway, why not go for it?

To really take advantage of new cams, I'd suspect you'd want to tune your fuel maps using something like MaxTronic and MaxTune. Any non-custom fuel maps might leave some power unused.

tifosiman

I don't think carwashes and oil changes alone will ensure that one won't have problems using a 20something year old car as a daily driver.

There are people who will come on here and say they drove their 944 a million miles with no problems ever, blah blah blah. That's the exception, rather than the rule.

Let me modify my prior statement: You shouldn't depend on a 20something year old car as a daily driver unless you don't have a job or resonsibilities, or have a newer, more reliable car sitting in the garage as a back-up.

V2Rocket

thats fair.

Tenacious_G

You effin' kidding me?? I blew my tranny and waxed the car, ran fine afterward.

Ecos

Thanks for the replies, and thanks for the welcomes. Also thanks for the lead on the Web Cam Inc. and Maxtronic! The Variocam idea sounds interesting but probably too indepth for me.


I've thought about buying a 951 but as stated the low end ones seem to go for $7,000+ and of course the motors have mileage on them. I purchased this car for $2,500 and it looks like a good base to start off with. The body is in pretty good shape, no rust, most the weather stripping appears to be new, etc. So that leaves me with $4,500 I can invest in it and still come in at the price for a bottom end 951. I figure I could rebuild the motor and maybe squeeze out some extra HP and have a decent car that has en engine with zero miles on the internals.

As I said I'm not looking for huge HP gains, just a bit more perk. If these engines are 188hp to get 220hp is around a 15-20% increase. Which to me sounds doable but then I am used to working on American V8's not German 4cyl.

Also it would be a lot easier for me to buy a part here and there than spring for a 951 all at once.

As for being a daily driver. I own a small business and work at home so my daily driving is at a minimum. The main concern would be getting to school since I'm also a fulltime student but it won't be that big of a deal if I miss a class. I also have my old car which is reliable as a backup.

I'm gong to try and attach pics of the car. The worst part of the body is where someone missed the jack points.

Whisper

Welcome.

"Can I turbo my NA?" is a standard first question. According to conventional wisdom, it can be done, but it's much easier and cheaper to buy a 951.

As for what kind of numbers the NAs can put out, up to 200 is not unknown (mine did about that until I lost the timing belt, only time will tell if she can be returned to being all that she was), but take such claims with a grain of salt.

If you really want your NA to have significantly more muscle, I think most would agree that the ls1 swap is the best explored route to this goal. A realistic estimate for the cost of this would probably be about 12-15k.

Opinions vary as to whether this is A: Blasphemy, B: Worth it, C:Better than a turbo, D: More reliable than stock.

V2Rocket

depending on how much money you have to spend, you could look into getting an overbored high compression motor. darton will make you a sleeve up to a 104mm bore (2.7L) for the 2.5 block or companies like vitesse can make you a 106mm 2.8L motor, and you could put high compression pistons on there. but that is getting pretty damn expensive for unlikely to be high gains. speedforce racing will sell you a 2.8L stroker engine which would be amazing with individual throttle bodies. and stroking a 944 engine is thought to be more reliable in the long run than boring because of the thinned cylinder walls.

ritzblitz

Youd better be spinning those internals pretty fast to warrant ITBs