FormulaOne10

I'm planning on buying a 26.8 mm front bar for my 84 n/a. I have option 404 which is supposed to be an upgraded front and an addition of a rear stabilizer(I believe they are 21mm and 14mm respectively)I have a few questions about this.

1. How hard is it to modify the front suspension to accept this bigger bar in terms of boring out the rubber and any other modifications it may need.

2. Does anybody have experience with adding this bar(or any thicker front bar) and keeping their 14mm rear sway bar? How bad is the understeer?

3. Who, if anybody, makes aftermarket poly sway bar bushings for the 944? I was hoping to use poly bushings on the rear bar to help counteract some of the understeer from the front bar.

4. Should I only order the bushings with the sway bar or is there anything else I might need?

Thanks in advance

FormulaOne10

I hate to bump my own post but...

Dave

Get yourself a 16 or 18mm rear bar, they are really inexpensive, get all new rubber sway bar bushings, front and rear, if the car is to be street driven, thank yourself for doing the above <img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />

FormulaOne10

Well, ironically if the car were only to be street driven, I would do this. However, this is going to be a daily driver/autocrosser, possibly DE later. For now I am a novice and I would like to stay in the stock SCCA class so I can really only change the front sway bar. I will probably upgrade to stiffer Konis also. When I am ready to move up to street prepared, I'll probably get the 19mm 968 M030 adjustable.

Dave

The street driven reference was for the rubber bushings, anything stiffer sucks on the street, and will rattle things loose in no time.
Double check the rules for SCCA, it doesn't make sense to be able to change 1 bar but not the other, PCA allows you to change both in stock class.
I haven't tried your proposed setup, but it sounds like a real handful, the kind of thing that costs you more seconds than it saves.
If you must keep the rear bar, consider a 24.5 or 25.5 for the front.

86Jason944

It used to be that according to SCCA's "stock" rule book you could only change the front bar. I don't have a rule book for this year, but remember also, that SCCA has this large loop hole that allows updating/backdating of cars that are listed on the same line....so take a look at what other 944's are listed on that line and use the largest stock sway bars offered for the NA 944.

There are stiffer bushings out there. Weltmeister makes some, I think that you can probably get them from Paragon, but don't quote me on that. Performance Products also sells bushings. I have Turbo cup car sway bars on my car with just rubber bushings and it works great. I will not upgrade the bushings until I actually start racing my car, at which point I will go to spherical bearings.

FormulaOne10

This is all from a SCCA 2002 Solo II Rules Transcription found here. <a href="http://www.moutons.org/sccasolo/Rules/stock.html#s137" target="_blank">here</a>]RULES[/URL]

[quote]

Front anti-roll (sway) bars:

1. Substitution, addition or removal of any front anti-roll bars is permitted.
2. Substitution, addition or removal of anti-roll bars may serve no other purpose than that of an anti-roll bar.
3. The use of any bushing material is permitted.
4. No modification to the body, frame or other components to accommodate anti-roll bar addition or substitution is allowed, except for the drilling of holes for mounting bolts. Non-standard lateral members which connect between the brackets for the bar are not permitted.


Rear anti-roll (sway) bars:

May not be removed, replaced, or modified in any way.

This was in another section:

Except for modifications authorized below, Stock Category cars must be run as specified by the factory with only standard equipment as defined by these Rules. This requirement refers not just to individual parts, but to combinations thereof which which would have been ordered together on a specific car. Any other modifications or equipment will place the car in Street Prepared, Prepared or Modified Categories as appropriate.

Option package conversions may be performed between specific vehicles of a particular make and model, but only between configurations from within a particular model year.

<hr></blockquote>

Now maybe PCA has different rules, but nearly every autocross I've been to or watched in the Chicagoland area(minus PCA I guess) runs with the SOLO II rules. What I will most likely do is purchase the front TS bar and then if I don't like the car set-up get the rear 19mm adjustable from paragon.

Bill K

I run a 86 in SCCA Solo II and this is what I found after much experimentation and testing.

You want the 30mm front bar from the 968 M030 with your 14mm rear bar. It doesn't cause too much understeer and makes the car perfectly neutral for autocrossing. The N/A car oversteers with sticky tires and the big front bar keeps the rear end planted so you can power out of the turns. I know people will say this will cause too much understeer, but they have not tried this combo for autocrossing. I tried alot of different stuff before settling on this combo. It is better to keep the rear end planted so you don't get too much oversteer and maybe even give up a little entry speed, then to have a car that oversteers too much where you can't put the power down. If you don't have LSD, it is even more important that you put on a big front bar.

I also set the alignment differently than alot of road racers or street cars. I put in max toe in at the rear and this is the only way to keep the rear from coming around under trail braking. I also run max camber front and rear. The nationals winning 968 from 2 years ago ran max toe in at the rear and so did another former national champion. Max toe in may not work under "theory", but works in real life.

You need all new front bushings from the factory which are around $20 including the end link bushings. You also want the updated sway mounts as they tend to break with larger bars and sticky tires. You want both the round piece for the center bushings and the L-shaped bracket. You actually have to get the new round pieces to use the larger sway bars. All this should cost around $50 from a discount dealer.

Email me privately if you want more info.

Bill Kim