Water4Gas and save your money at the pump?
07-14-2008, 03:12 AM
#31
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Hold on man, I am no scam artist!
I am a car lover that is here to learn and share info. Not to mention our beloved Porsche cars.
"Hello good people" is a term adopted from my junior high school teacher.
07-14-2008, 11:21 AM
#32
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What some people do not understand is that the alternator is controlled so it does not waste a lot of power.
The alternator works pretty hard to recharge the battery after startup, and if you have the AC and the lights on it works a lot harder than if you are just driving along in the daytime. When the alternator works harder, it becomes harder to turn and the engine has to burn more gas to turn it.
There are some motorcycles out there, old bikes, dirt bikes, that use a primitive system that wastes any excess current from the generator, but that is not something you will see on a car. All that energy store in your car battery, you generated it with your engine and paid for it at the pump.
For this to really work (and work so you could measure an MPG increase, not move the car on hydrogen alone) you'd need a bank of batteries charged by big solar panels or wind or something., and then you'd be better off using that energy in some other way and not lugging hundreds of pounds of batteries around so you could waste most of that potential un-burning water in a mason jar.
-Joel.
The alternator works pretty hard to recharge the battery after startup, and if you have the AC and the lights on it works a lot harder than if you are just driving along in the daytime. When the alternator works harder, it becomes harder to turn and the engine has to burn more gas to turn it.
There are some motorcycles out there, old bikes, dirt bikes, that use a primitive system that wastes any excess current from the generator, but that is not something you will see on a car. All that energy store in your car battery, you generated it with your engine and paid for it at the pump.
For this to really work (and work so you could measure an MPG increase, not move the car on hydrogen alone) you'd need a bank of batteries charged by big solar panels or wind or something., and then you'd be better off using that energy in some other way and not lugging hundreds of pounds of batteries around so you could waste most of that potential un-burning water in a mason jar.
-Joel.
07-14-2008, 11:42 AM
#33
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07-14-2008, 01:04 PM
#34
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07-15-2008, 02:46 AM
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What some people do not understand is that the alternator is controlled so it does not waste a lot of power.
The alternator works pretty hard to recharge the battery after startup, and if you have the AC and the lights on it works a lot harder than if you are just driving along in the daytime. When the alternator works harder, it becomes harder to turn and the engine has to burn more gas to turn it.
There are some motorcycles out there, old bikes, dirt bikes, that use a primitive system that wastes any excess current from the generator, but that is not something you will see on a car. All that energy store in your car battery, you generated it with your engine and paid for it at the pump.
For this to really work (and work so you could measure an MPG increase, not move the car on hydrogen alone) you'd need a bank of batteries charged by big solar panels or wind or something., and then you'd be better off using that energy in some other way and not lugging hundreds of pounds of batteries around so you could waste most of that potential un-burning water in a mason jar.
-Joel.
The alternator works pretty hard to recharge the battery after startup, and if you have the AC and the lights on it works a lot harder than if you are just driving along in the daytime. When the alternator works harder, it becomes harder to turn and the engine has to burn more gas to turn it.
There are some motorcycles out there, old bikes, dirt bikes, that use a primitive system that wastes any excess current from the generator, but that is not something you will see on a car. All that energy store in your car battery, you generated it with your engine and paid for it at the pump.
For this to really work (and work so you could measure an MPG increase, not move the car on hydrogen alone) you'd need a bank of batteries charged by big solar panels or wind or something., and then you'd be better off using that energy in some other way and not lugging hundreds of pounds of batteries around so you could waste most of that potential un-burning water in a mason jar.
-Joel.
read carefully... i never said it works, just that it should be tested before saying it doesn't.
07-15-2008, 02:49 AM
#39
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I guess common sense to me is babbling a bunch of stuff I thought I learned in high school. That common sense would also tell me that I shouldn't assume what you thought you learned in high school since I don't know you but I guess you know more about me than I do. What makes no sense to me and many others who have taken thermodynamics in engineering school makes me doubt but I guess you can school me by telling me how the efficiency of the overall system is increased whether be mechanical, electrical, or thermodynamically.
Its like fusion. We know it can be done but so far input exceeds output. I figured if distilled water can make power without external inputs, we wouldn't need any energy companies or oil companies similar to someone making cold fusion possible. Nothing is impossible but until it makes sense to me, I am not going to blindly embrace it. If that distilled water car is for real, I think the world's energy crisis is solved once and for all.
Its like fusion. We know it can be done but so far input exceeds output. I figured if distilled water can make power without external inputs, we wouldn't need any energy companies or oil companies similar to someone making cold fusion possible. Nothing is impossible but until it makes sense to me, I am not going to blindly embrace it. If that distilled water car is for real, I think the world's energy crisis is solved once and for all.
you aren't understanding the definition of what a system is... this is why you can't understand how this can work.
07-15-2008, 02:53 AM
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No,
many of us have engineering degrees and see the bull**** from miles away. Charging a full battery won't draw current since the potentials will be near equal between the battery and alternator. The only excess energy the system would use is the stored charge on the battery, since WATER IS NOT A SOURCE OF ENERGY. So you can improve your milage by using the battery power, which means next time your car won't start.
If you're not introducing more energy into the system, you will not gain energy. Use common sense - people knew how to get hydrogen from water for the past 100 years... do you really think that the big 3 wouldn't put $25 dollar thing into the car if it actually improved gas milage?
many of us have engineering degrees and see the bull**** from miles away. Charging a full battery won't draw current since the potentials will be near equal between the battery and alternator. The only excess energy the system would use is the stored charge on the battery, since WATER IS NOT A SOURCE OF ENERGY. So you can improve your milage by using the battery power, which means next time your car won't start.
If you're not introducing more energy into the system, you will not gain energy. Use common sense - people knew how to get hydrogen from water for the past 100 years... do you really think that the big 3 wouldn't put $25 dollar thing into the car if it actually improved gas milage?
in one sentence you are addressing the issue of efficiency...
in the other you are talking about increasing energy...
they are two different things...
it's like saying you can't get more MPG by changing the exhaust or the cam or some other part of the engine... you can and its done by increasing the efficiency of the system and it can be done in many many ways, some not invented yet.
science requires tests, not just quick draw bulletin board heroes.
07-15-2008, 02:59 AM
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I guess common sense to me is babbling a bunch of stuff I thought I learned in high school. That common sense would also tell me that I shouldn't assume what you thought you learned in high school since I don't know you but I guess you know more about me than I do. What makes no sense to me and many others who have taken thermodynamics in engineering school makes me doubt but I guess you can school me by telling me how the efficiency of the overall system is increased whether be mechanical, electrical, or thermodynamically.
Its like fusion. We know it can be done but so far input exceeds output. I figured if distilled water can make power without external inputs, we wouldn't need any energy companies or oil companies similar to someone making cold fusion possible. Nothing is impossible but until it makes sense to me, I am not going to blindly embrace it. If that distilled water car is for real, I think the world's energy crisis is solved once and for all.
Its like fusion. We know it can be done but so far input exceeds output. I figured if distilled water can make power without external inputs, we wouldn't need any energy companies or oil companies similar to someone making cold fusion possible. Nothing is impossible but until it makes sense to me, I am not going to blindly embrace it. If that distilled water car is for real, I think the world's energy crisis is solved once and for all.
there are many ways to do this as we all know, the easiest way to get infinite efficiency is not to drive the car.
07-15-2008, 03:16 AM
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07-15-2008, 08:23 AM
#43
Three Wheelin'
I very much doubt that, because the machine in essence works to increase entropy in the system... classical example of perpetual motion machine and violation of the 2nd law of thermodynamics.
Or to take your argument, the only way that the device increases efficiency of the combustion engine is if it works at >100% efficiency. That is the HHO splitter generates more energy in form or hydrogen than what it consumes in form of load on the engine.
Or to take your argument, the only way that the device increases efficiency of the combustion engine is if it works at >100% efficiency. That is the HHO splitter generates more energy in form or hydrogen than what it consumes in form of load on the engine.
07-15-2008, 08:27 AM
#44
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I was a very happy man. My wonderful girlfriend and I had been dating
for years, and so we decided to get married. There was only one
little thing bothering me… It was her beautiful younger sister. My
prospective sister-in-law was twenty-two, wore very tight miniskirts,
and generally was bra-less. She would regularly bend down when she was
near me, and I always got more than a nice view.. It had to be
deliberate. Because she never did it when she was near anyone else.
One day her ‘little’ sister called and asked me to come over to check
the wedding invitations. She was alone when I arrived, and she whispered
to me that she had feelings and desires for me that she couldn’t
overcome. She told me that she wanted me just once before I got married
and committed my life to her sister. Well, I was in total shock, and
couldn’t say a word.
She said, ‘I’m going upstairs to my bedroom, and if you want one last
wild fling, just come up and get me.’ I was stunned and frozen in shock
as I watched her go up the stairs. I stood there for a moment, then
turned and made a beeline straight to the front door. I opened the door,
and headed straight towards my car. Low and behold, my entire future
family was standing outside, all clapping!
With tears in his eyes, my father-in-law hugged me and said, ‘We are
very happy that you have passed our little test. We couldn’t ask for a
better man for our daughter. Welcome to the family.’
And the moral of this story is: Always keep your condoms in your car!
for years, and so we decided to get married. There was only one
little thing bothering me… It was her beautiful younger sister. My
prospective sister-in-law was twenty-two, wore very tight miniskirts,
and generally was bra-less. She would regularly bend down when she was
near me, and I always got more than a nice view.. It had to be
deliberate. Because she never did it when she was near anyone else.
One day her ‘little’ sister called and asked me to come over to check
the wedding invitations. She was alone when I arrived, and she whispered
to me that she had feelings and desires for me that she couldn’t
overcome. She told me that she wanted me just once before I got married
and committed my life to her sister. Well, I was in total shock, and
couldn’t say a word.
She said, ‘I’m going upstairs to my bedroom, and if you want one last
wild fling, just come up and get me.’ I was stunned and frozen in shock
as I watched her go up the stairs. I stood there for a moment, then
turned and made a beeline straight to the front door. I opened the door,
and headed straight towards my car. Low and behold, my entire future
family was standing outside, all clapping!
With tears in his eyes, my father-in-law hugged me and said, ‘We are
very happy that you have passed our little test. We couldn’t ask for a
better man for our daughter. Welcome to the family.’
And the moral of this story is: Always keep your condoms in your car!
07-15-2008, 08:29 AM
#45
Three Wheelin'
if you want a school then you should first ask a question with an answer... you don't increase the energy of "a system"... you can increase the energy of "the system" that we are talking about which is the 944 Porsche's MPG average.
there are many ways to do this as we all know, the easiest way to get infinite efficiency is not to drive the car.
there are many ways to do this as we all know, the easiest way to get infinite efficiency is not to drive the car.
MPG overage on the engine level is still engine output per unit of energy input. And not driving the car yields 0/0 = 0mpg.