icat

Code Red is back on the road again!
Thanks goes out to Danno for the technical assist on spacers, studs, and tire sizes! Yes Virgina, 993 wheels will fit an 86 951 – with a little work!



Fronts are Bridgestone SO3's in 225/45-17 mounted on 7x17 Porsche Cups.



Rears are also SO3's, 255/40-17 on 9x17 Porsche Cups.



Tires are from Tire Rack - $770 with shipping. Great deal, fantastic tires - I love them! They even drop shipped to the shop who installed them.
Spacers are Porsche units, 21mm fronts ($25 each) and 28mm Rears ($50 each) - all from Oklahoma Foreign. Wheels are from Viking Motorsports in Houston - $800 for the set. Man are they light! I had them refinished, but they really didn't need it. That was set me back another $109 per wheel. Viking also got the new longer studs for me, they were under $40 for the set. Everything fits perfect - and no rubbing.
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PorscheG96

Car looks great! Where did you have them refinished?

icat

The refinish was done at Wheels of America in Houston. It was OK, but not perfect. Not sure I'd recommend them - depends on what you are after. For me, the wheels had been scuffed a bit and I wanted fresh paint that looked great, but I really didn't want concours wheels.
I also tried Wheel Crafters in Houston, but the guy who answered the phone talked like I was interrupting his lunch or something - so I figured he had more business than he needed and I went elsewhere! Hope he's reading this - but I doubt it!

Almost forgot, Viking Motorsports rocks - very helpful. Tracked down the spacers and studs for me. If you are in Houston this is the place to be!

Viking Sjovall
Viking Motorsports
13003 Murphy Rd. N1
Stafford, Texas 77477
281-498-1001

And no - I have no connection with them at all - just a happy customer!

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Tremelune

Definately look great. I'm really liking the way the 993 and 964 baskets are looking on 944s.

Luke

So your ol' rims ended up on the 924?

Danno

Good job Keith, they look great! So ah, what do those wheels weigh anyway?

aka 951

I have the real Porsche cups on my 911 - they are at least 20 lbs each.

icat

I knew I forgot something! Sorry Danno, I didn't weigh the wheels before I had them installed. According to Wheel Weights, they weigh 18 lbs. for the fronts and 19.5 lbs. for the rears. Viking had a C2 rim at his shop and that's what I originally wanted. But you could feel the difference when you picked the rims up, the Cups are much lighter. So much so that I went with the Cups instead. These rims are very similar to the Phone Dials (18.5 and 20 on the Phone Dials) in weight. I picked up a bit more with the spacers, but I'm way under what aftermarket would have been. The reproduction wheels I was looking at from ATI would have added at least 5 lbs. per wheel.

Luke, the old phone dials are still in the garage. The 924 is an S and it has the late offset, so the 86 Phones won't work. Too bad, could have used the extra width.

Later,
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sm

All this talk about new wheels has made me think about getting a set too. A couple of questions though:

Would using spacers and longer studs lead to wheel bearing problems, premature wear of suspension bushings, etc?

Being that the wheels are mounted further away from the hubs/spindles, will there be extra stress on those parts? I'm just thinking back to the equation for torque and the increase in the moment arm.

icat

If you look at your current wheels, the '86 951 already has a spacer at the front! Many Porsche's came with spacers from the factory. Indeed, the spacers I used are actual Porsche units - of course that doesn't make them the best solution. I think everyone will agree that no spacer is better than adding spacers. But with the '86 offset, it's just about your only option. You can go for the aftermarket wheels with the correct offset, but unless you go the high dollar route your gonna add weight. Some of the aftermarket wheels are very heavy.

Check out <a href="http://www.wheelweights.net" target="_blank">www.wheelweights.net</a> for a comprehensive listing of just about every wheel out there. Then decide if weight is more or less important to you than spacers. For me, picking up the heavy C2 was all it took - I went with the lightest Porsche wheel I could find in 17". Of course it doesn't hurt that they look great too!

Terry Jamison

Keith,
The wheels look very very good. I've been toying with the idea of changing my wheels. However, mine's an '84 with the early offset. So, my choices are more limited. I've even considered the early phoone dials just as a change. What are your plans for the phone dials?

Danno

"If you look at your current wheels, the '86 951 already has a spacer at the front!"

I think that's the hub you're seeing in front. If you look at the rear of an '82-85 944NA, they ALL came with a stock 21mm rear spacer. In '86 944/951, they were left off for some strange reason. What we're almost really doing here is back-dating your car a little by re-introducing the spacer that was left off.

"Would using spacers and longer studs lead to wheel bearing problems, premature wear of suspension bushings, etc?"

No reports yet. The difference comes in when you compute the resultant effective offset. The spacers are used to make non-stock rims simulate a stock rim. If the rim ends up with near the stock offset, the loads will be similar.

I think most of the horror stories are from the 911 crowd where people put 1-2" spacers on their stock wheels to fit 930 wide-fender kits, thus deviating far, far away from their stock offsets.

"Being that the wheels are mounted further away from the hubs/spindles, will there be extra stress on those parts? I'm just thinking back to the equation for torque and the increase in the moment arm. "

Hmm, it really depends upon whether you set up the equations correctly. Also remember that the load doesn't start at the studs, but at the ground. Once you clamp the lug-nuts on, the hub, spacer, wheel becomes one solid assembly.

The lateral axial torque (at the bearings) & moment-arm you compute should really be the sum two opposing forces. One from the outside edge of the tire at the contact patch straight to the middle of the bearings, which tends to tilt the top of the wheel inwards. The second torque is from the inner edge of the contact patch to the center of the bearings, which counter-acts the outer moment-arm, and pushes the top of the wheel outwards. If you juggle spacers such that the effective offset is the same as stock, then the resultant axial torque on the bearings is exactly the same.

icat

[quote] However, mine's an '84 with the early offset. So, my choices are more limited. I've even considered the early phoone dials just as a change. What are your plans for the phone dials? <hr></blockquote>

Terry, the '86 951 is an early offset too. My offset is the same as yours, so following what Danno recommended and what I did will put those same beautiful late model offset wheels on your car. As for my Phone Dials - Autocross time!
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Tom Pultz

Keith, if could try and measure the tread depth of these new tires I'd appreciate it. I'm selling my 17" 996 twists with S-03s and I want to compare my current tread depth to what a new tire actually measures. A new tire is supposed to be 10/32" but do they actually measure that much?

Thanks for any info you can provide. Your new wheels and tires look very good... but I already knew that

Danno

" Viking had a C2 rim at his shop and that's what I originally wanted. But you could feel the difference when you picked the rims up, the Cups are much lighter. "

Yeah, the C2 rims looks pretty beefy with the rectangular cross-section on the spokes. Are they solid on the back side or hollowed out?

They look really good on a 928 too..