+1 on the Pagid Orange (or other Pagid racing brakes). Those are the only pads I trust at 150 MPH.

I agree you probably don't need the 993 turbo brakes, especially with good pads, but it sounds like you have a generous budget to work with, and bigger brakes have a "cool" factor.

 

Heres an interesting development.

The new rules for the UAE Touring Car Championship (which is what they are calling it this year), came out recently with changes in categories. They have created a seperate category for Naturally Aspirated Porsches which means I don't compete in the capacity classes but have to contend with several GT3s etc.
This puts me at a disadvantage in terms of outright power to weight. With other rule changes allowing more lenient engine mods, the other option I have is to build a turbo motor and compete in the over 4000cc class with the GT2s, Z06s etc.
I figure I can get maybe 250-280hp absolute max out of a built NA S2 motor, but an easy 400+ out of a turbo motor. Obviously turbo is more expensive etc, but I have had a chat with Tim at Speedforce and it is straight forward enough to do.

I have my own ideas, but just out of interest what would you choose? Battle it out with an NA motor against other NA Porsches, or go turbo and chase the frontrunners?

 

I think that depends on your driving ability (and how much you ultimately want to spend). I don't know the rules there, but some of the fastest PCA race cars we have in the north east are 944 based... meaning, they have some piece of a 944 firewall somewhere inside the tube-frame and fiberglass race car - and then a monster turbo motor in the 500 HP range. Roy Chong's car comes to mind.

Competing with modern cars (GT3s/GT2s, etc) is going to be hard in either class. They have more modern suspension geometries, wider tires, stiffer chassis, etc.

I'm not an engine builder, but I'd guess that if you built a 968 motor up from scratch, optimized to run on race fuel and a stand-alone engine management system, 350 HP should be attainable. (Can you put a 928 motor in?) If you could get the vehicle weight down to 2500 lbs, you should definitely be competitive with street GT3s - but not cup cars.

I guess it also depends on the tracks you will run on. Smaller, curvier tracks favor lower HP cars.

Do you have a great fondness for 944-type cars?

I'd think you could get into a 996 turbo for not too much money (compared to what you'll spend to build a 944 race car), convert it to rear wheel drive, do some performance mods to make 550 HP, strip out the interior, bolt in a cage, and you're ready to race with the big boys.

The Mk1 996s are going to be the 944s of the future - the best "used-Porsche-bang-for-the-buck". Right now, early NA 996s with 300 HP are selling for just a few thousand more than people are trying to get for 944 turbos.

 

Build a 944 GTR Widebody with fiberglass fenders, etc. That'll bring weight down. As for the engine - it is pretty easy to drop a LS-x Chevy small block v8 in these on the cheap - n/a wise they can make a lot of power.

 

Your are going to struggle to make a 944 competitive under those rules.

Only a 944 Turbo will have the power to compete and once there the chassis will be found to be inferior.

About 6-7 years ago it was a big thing in PCA to race big hp 944 Turbos in PCA. They could compete well with 993 based cars, but even then tende to be less reliable. Then the 996 GT3 Cups came along and there was a car that could easly compete with and beat a big hp 944 turbo. In some cases extreme turbo's could hold on and punch out a good qualy lap, but of the course a race distance and even more so over the season the 996 GT3 cup proved to a much superior platform. To make 951 compete at that level put alot more stress on the components and resulted in increase failures and more time spend fixing or replacing parts. As such many guys got out of the big hp 951's and bought GT3 cups. I don't believe their have been more than 1 or 2 big hp 951's built for racing use in PCA in last 5 years. The used ones get sold for pennies on the dollar or get parted in and effort to recoup some of costs.

Where 944 racing has gone from the era of big hp Turbo is more into spec racing. 944 Spec racing in NA's has ground by leaps and bounds, but that does not help you much as we only look to complete with ourselves so overall speed is not a big concern. There is also growth in racing limited prep 951 in stock or semi stock forms. These cars may be fun to race, but quite a bit more limited in hp levels.

There a very few big hp 944 Turbo's running these days and few really try to compete with 996 Cups for speed.

So if you want to be competitive the 944 platform won't do it. If you want to have fun they are great cars if you limit the power levels and build for relaiblity vs all out speed.

 

^^Some good points.

This addition of a NA Porsche category at this late stage does screw up my plans to some extent as I was targeting the 2000-3000cc class! However, as there is no million dollar prizes and the primary goal is to race for the fun of it I will stick with the 944. I suspect the level of car prep in NA will be lower and a lot of GT3 type cars will be run pretty much stock.

Engine swap is a possibility, but under the rules the block must be from the same manufacturer. So the LS1 swap is not possible. Will a 928 block fit...I had been told it is too wide?

 

I'm thinking fitting a 928 motor under the hood should be no problem once you cut off everything in front of the firewall and build in a tube front end with double-wishbone conversion...

 

Would NASA GTS be a venue for this? Obviously, the Cheby V8 would disqualify it; but a 944Turbo might work.

 

How about American Iron?

 

LOL.

I thought when we wrote the rules for GTS, way back when, that engine swaps were allowed and source was NOT restricted. Maybe they've changed things since then. At the time, there was a guy with a Merc running a Chebbie V8 - we said, why the heck not, it's fun! And it looks right, anyway...

Of course since this guy's in Dubai, that kinda rules out a GTS or AI run...

 

Dubai 944

I don't know if you are interested in my opinion, but it might save you some money.

Based on the new Regs, you stand no chance of a podium with the 944, let alone winning. If you want to drive for the fun of it, the 944 will be a blast once you get it sorted and lightened. But if you are after points, you might have the wrong platform.

I was going to compete in a 968 Clubsport and even have all the parts in Dubai ready for fitment, however I quickly realized after seeing the regs that I stand no chance against the GT3s, which most are/will be lightened and modified, and are very very well driven by people who can drive the track blind folded.

Expect them to put up to 10 secs per lap on you. I have raced these guys in my 993TT and know how fast they are. For reference check out in this link, and how far behind the modified 965 turbo is vs. the GT3s and others, and the owner is a good German driver and Porsche master tech who owns a Porsche workshop, but some of the GT3 drivers have a good 5000 laps here or more.

http://www.porscheclubuae.com/member...ts&session_id=

Turbocharging your 944 for this event is not an ideal solution, to get the tuning sorted will be a MAJOR challenge and you will have to fly over here your tuner to do real road tuning, whatever he has developped in the US will not work here for a race car that will be under so much stress, BTDT.

If and when you get it sorted, you will have reliability issues, weather conditions (heat, sand etc) and fuel are quite unique in this part of the world. You would need a lot of spares and get ready to work yourself on your car as no one here can help you out with the engine. Then you will be running in the >4ltrs with the GT2s etc as you mentioned.

I would still drive the 944, but for the fun factor of competition, which is much more important IMO.
Just my 2 cents.

 

I think they changed the rule last year. You can swap but must remain with a motor from the same manufacturer. I guess they got scared of SBC 944s beating up on everyone. The cars that were logbooked prior to the rule change are grandfathered in though.

 

Jean,

Yes, you are right that the new regs have screwed things up! Pity they took so long to get them out. I have sent a request form to the Autodrome asking if it is still possible to compete in the 2000-3000cc category as I am four cylinders, but I am sure they will say no.

Looking at the times you posted I can only relate it to my 350z which runs 2:36s on the GP circuit and 1:47s on the National, with a stock engine, some suspension and brake mods and semislicks. The car is heavy, 3650lbs with driver and stock power is 306hp. I figure the 944 on full race suspension at a weight of 2500 lbs would have to be quicker than the 350Z even with standard S2 power, especially on the club and shorter circuits, but how much quicker is an unknown till I get it on the track and I agree that 10 seconds on the GP circuit is a lot of time to find without a fair bit more horsepower!

It comes down to cost vs benefit really. Unfortunately I have already pumped money into the car so I don't want to change platform at this point. I will build the thing to be as fast as I can get it within my budget and go have some fun....plenty of other cars to race against even if it is not for points

 

Dubai 944

I agree, you will enjoy racing it and that's what matters, if there is a podium then even better. I just thought I would tell you that these posted times on the P-Club website are with a standing start not a rolling start, which might also be the case with your 350Z I don't know.

 

I had a win with the series technical committee agreeing to let me enter the 2000-3000cc category, rather than having to compete against the GT3s in the Porsche NA! Jean, this might apply to your 968 also?

So I am going to stay NA this season and do some basic breathing mods to find a bit more power. Now looking for suitable intake/head/cam exhaust setup to make this work? Recommendations ?