Porsche 944S2 vs Toyota Supra turbo Mk3 (1991) vs Rx7 Turbo2 (2nd gen) ?
05-21-2003, 07:46 AM
#1
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Porsche 944S2 vs Toyota Supra turbo Mk3 (1991) vs Rx7 Turbo2 (2nd gen) ?
I know this for obvious reasons is going to come out biased. I just wondering what you guys think. List some good strong points and weakpoints of the cars. Make a good case for why you think what you think. I will give my input in alittle bit.
05-21-2003, 08:39 AM
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944's the prettiest. I really don't know much about those other cars, but them being turbocharged, I'd guess they'll whoop the S2 (more so if they're modified). Of course, one could just bring out the 951 against them... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />
05-21-2003, 10:05 AM
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i owned six rx7s, four first generation - one was a gsl-se, two second. no turbos.
i just sold my convertible because of the baby, and will probably regret it in a few years.
the rx7s have the equivalent of porsche sport seats, better radios, are more driveable, more reliable, much much more reliable, and less costly to repair. The quality is equal to or better than the porsche. there are less cracked dashes on rx7s, and more cracked easily replaced dash bezels on rx7s.
i always wanted an exotic european car, and the bills for the 944 sure are exotic. but for the galvanized metal of the porsche i dont see the porsche as a superior car. i bought the porsche because it was designed as a race car, and figured there was more safety in the cage than the rx7, plus it had airbags, and abs.
sure the S2 with 16" rims and 210 hp is better at extreme than the mazda with 15" rims 160hp, and the added weight of the convertible, but as far as daily driving goes, the rx7 is a more comfortable, better driving car.
i just sold my convertible because of the baby, and will probably regret it in a few years.
the rx7s have the equivalent of porsche sport seats, better radios, are more driveable, more reliable, much much more reliable, and less costly to repair. The quality is equal to or better than the porsche. there are less cracked dashes on rx7s, and more cracked easily replaced dash bezels on rx7s.
i always wanted an exotic european car, and the bills for the 944 sure are exotic. but for the galvanized metal of the porsche i dont see the porsche as a superior car. i bought the porsche because it was designed as a race car, and figured there was more safety in the cage than the rx7, plus it had airbags, and abs.
sure the S2 with 16" rims and 210 hp is better at extreme than the mazda with 15" rims 160hp, and the added weight of the convertible, but as far as daily driving goes, the rx7 is a more comfortable, better driving car.
05-21-2003, 10:08 AM
#6
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Never driven a MK3 Supra, but those RX7 Turbo 2's are quick little cars. I'd be willing to bet in straight line speed, they'd walk all over an S2, but on a track, or AutoX course, the S2 would be doing the spanking.
You've gotta remember, Japanese automotive philosophy in those days was "We can do what you can do, for cheaper." The RX7 was their answer to the 924/44
You've gotta remember, Japanese automotive philosophy in those days was "We can do what you can do, for cheaper." The RX7 was their answer to the 924/44
05-21-2003, 11:12 AM
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by 944 Fanatic:
<strong>You've gotta remember, Japanese automotive philosophy in those days was "We can do what you can do, for cheaper." </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">In those days? Not much has changed.
<strong>You've gotta remember, Japanese automotive philosophy in those days was "We can do what you can do, for cheaper." </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">In those days? Not much has changed.
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05-21-2003, 01:22 PM
#8
Race Director
Just my opinions: (First off, I think a 944Turbo / Supra Turbo / RX7 Turbo would be a slightly fairer comparison)
In straight line acceleration, the Supra Turbo wins. Point: Supra
In terms of cornering, I'd say the RX-7 and the S2 are very close. Remember, the RX-7 is considered a front-mid engine car as well. Altough it's probably too close to call, so: Point: RX7 and 944S2
In terms of looks, I must say I love the looks of the third gen RX7, but we're talking 2nd gen, so, I like the looks of the orignial (944S2) not the copy (2nd gen RX7): Point: 944S2
In terms of maintenance, all three of these cars can be put into the "expensive maintenance car" category. No points!
In terms of reliability, the Supra's probably the best of the lot. RX7 and the S2 each have their maintenance issues, altough the S2's higher maintenance costs are more likely associated with it's age rather than with engineering issues. Point: Supra
In terms of heritage, the 944S2 wins hands down. German engineering, BABY! Point: 944S2
Fun factor: all three of these cars are probably a kick to drive! Meaningless point: Supra, RX7 and 944S2!
So my score card is: Supra: three, RX7: 2, and 944S2: 4!
Just my $0.42
-Z.
In straight line acceleration, the Supra Turbo wins. Point: Supra
In terms of cornering, I'd say the RX-7 and the S2 are very close. Remember, the RX-7 is considered a front-mid engine car as well. Altough it's probably too close to call, so: Point: RX7 and 944S2
In terms of looks, I must say I love the looks of the third gen RX7, but we're talking 2nd gen, so, I like the looks of the orignial (944S2) not the copy (2nd gen RX7): Point: 944S2
In terms of maintenance, all three of these cars can be put into the "expensive maintenance car" category. No points!
In terms of reliability, the Supra's probably the best of the lot. RX7 and the S2 each have their maintenance issues, altough the S2's higher maintenance costs are more likely associated with it's age rather than with engineering issues. Point: Supra
In terms of heritage, the 944S2 wins hands down. German engineering, BABY! Point: 944S2
Fun factor: all three of these cars are probably a kick to drive! Meaningless point: Supra, RX7 and 944S2!
So my score card is: Supra: three, RX7: 2, and 944S2: 4!
Just my $0.42
-Z.
05-21-2003, 01:55 PM
#9
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I like Z-man's analysis methodology. I'll take the subjective approach.
All three of these cars are great in their own right. The appropriate one that can be considered 'best' would depend upon your application.
I've own two generations of Supras starting with an '86 MKII and an '89 MKIII Turbo. The '91 was the anniversary edition and it's a fully-loaded GT car. If you're cruising the interstate on long road-trips, the Supra's the answer. Rides much, much smoother than the S2 or RX-7 with decent passing power, but speed is governor-limited to 155mph. Forget about using this car on the track. But the Supra wins hands down in reliability and maintenance. My MKII went 245K miles on the original clutch, water-pump, wheel-bearings, CV-joints, brake-rotors, ball-joints, etc. Pretty much the only thing I replaced during the 15-years I owned it was the alternator voltage-regulator and consumables like tires, oil, brake-pads.
The RX-7 Turbo-II is a decent car that does well at everything, but doesn't excel at any one. So it's kinda bland. The handling I think is the best out of the three due to its light weight. But power and torque is lacking on the bigger tracks. I regularly get spanked in my 350rwhp 951 by 3rd-gen RX-7TTs all the time though.
The S2 definitely has the edge in image and the impression it gives. Kinda falls between the Supra at the GT end of the scale and the RX-7's nimbleness. Its torque would be better than the RX-7 on the tracks, but it's a little soft for serious duty.
All three of these cars are great in their own right. The appropriate one that can be considered 'best' would depend upon your application.
I've own two generations of Supras starting with an '86 MKII and an '89 MKIII Turbo. The '91 was the anniversary edition and it's a fully-loaded GT car. If you're cruising the interstate on long road-trips, the Supra's the answer. Rides much, much smoother than the S2 or RX-7 with decent passing power, but speed is governor-limited to 155mph. Forget about using this car on the track. But the Supra wins hands down in reliability and maintenance. My MKII went 245K miles on the original clutch, water-pump, wheel-bearings, CV-joints, brake-rotors, ball-joints, etc. Pretty much the only thing I replaced during the 15-years I owned it was the alternator voltage-regulator and consumables like tires, oil, brake-pads.
The RX-7 Turbo-II is a decent car that does well at everything, but doesn't excel at any one. So it's kinda bland. The handling I think is the best out of the three due to its light weight. But power and torque is lacking on the bigger tracks. I regularly get spanked in my 350rwhp 951 by 3rd-gen RX-7TTs all the time though.
The S2 definitely has the edge in image and the impression it gives. Kinda falls between the Supra at the GT end of the scale and the RX-7's nimbleness. Its torque would be better than the RX-7 on the tracks, but it's a little soft for serious duty.
05-21-2003, 02:04 PM
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I think maintenance is relative. I've got a near perfect example of an S2 and I have put some money into it, maybe a grand in 3 years but some of that stuff was overkill and I replaced more than I had to just to be complete about it. For instance $650 on 2 brand new m030 control arms because one ball joint was bad. But now other than it's time to do the timing belt, it needs nothing at all for probably the next 50k miles besides oil changes.
I've never driven a Supra but I have drivent he 2nd gen RX-7's, turbo and NA, and the turbo maybe be a bit quicker in a straight line, altho not by too much at all unless its modded. If the S2 has a better driver it'd probably take it.
I definately don't find the interior of the RX-7 to be as comfortable or as overall "nice" as the 944s though. Overall driveability the S2 is a great car for around town. Beats the RX-7s in gas mmileage by a decent amount, especially the turbos.
In the corners...S2 hands down, that goes for the brakes as well. Definately S2 there. The RX-7 handles well but but if you ask me there's not much question if you were on the track that the Porsche would walk it easy enough.
Looks..S2, definately. Its a car that looks like it could still be a brand new model. Throw some newer OEM Porsche wheels on it and they look killer! Those old Supras and RX-7s, while I wouldn't say they look bad, they do look dated.
The RX-7s are probably more common and thus easier to find parts for, probably cheaper, and there's definately a bigger aftermarket following for it than for an S2. I know which car I'd pick given the choice. And I'm not just biased because I have an S2 I chose this car over the alternatives for good reasons....
I've never driven a Supra but I have drivent he 2nd gen RX-7's, turbo and NA, and the turbo maybe be a bit quicker in a straight line, altho not by too much at all unless its modded. If the S2 has a better driver it'd probably take it.
I definately don't find the interior of the RX-7 to be as comfortable or as overall "nice" as the 944s though. Overall driveability the S2 is a great car for around town. Beats the RX-7s in gas mmileage by a decent amount, especially the turbos.
In the corners...S2 hands down, that goes for the brakes as well. Definately S2 there. The RX-7 handles well but but if you ask me there's not much question if you were on the track that the Porsche would walk it easy enough.
Looks..S2, definately. Its a car that looks like it could still be a brand new model. Throw some newer OEM Porsche wheels on it and they look killer! Those old Supras and RX-7s, while I wouldn't say they look bad, they do look dated.
The RX-7s are probably more common and thus easier to find parts for, probably cheaper, and there's definately a bigger aftermarket following for it than for an S2. I know which car I'd pick given the choice. And I'm not just biased because I have an S2 I chose this car over the alternatives for good reasons....
05-21-2003, 02:28 PM
#11
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I have to disagree on the old look of the supra Dave. The '91 model, a friend of mine has one so you could say I'm biased but, I think that it doesn't look any more dated than the 944, other similar models do but not this one. Also, the fenders have the same kinda "popped out" look, at least in the front. I haven't driven it, but have ridden in it quite a few times and the handling just doesn't feel as good as the 944. One thing you can't beat though is aftermarket parts availability and price for the supra and I guess the RX7 might be the same but since I know nothing about it, I can't say. On the other hand since the '91 is fully loaded like Danno said it's quite heavy, we call my friend's "the black cow" (it's a black car <img border="0" alt="[ouch]" title="" src="graemlins/c.gif" /> )
05-21-2003, 02:49 PM
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by rsrdan:
<strong>One is a piece of German enginering,and the other's are JUNKanese!!!</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Gotta loved the closed minded ignorant responses on these boards.
<strong>One is a piece of German enginering,and the other's are JUNKanese!!!</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Gotta loved the closed minded ignorant responses on these boards.
05-21-2003, 03:35 PM
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I doubt the Japanese cars have the "character" of the S2. Sure, they are nice performance cars, but the feel in driving them is probably nowhere near as rewarding as the Porsche.
05-21-2003, 03:49 PM
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by Kierf - ¿§?:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by rsrdan:
<strong>One is a piece of German enginering,and the other's are JUNKanese!!!</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Gotta loved the closed minded ignorant responses on these boards. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Because I have great disdain for Japanese products makes me a closed minded, ignorant fool?? I've had my experiences in the past with all types of automobiles. My favorite manufacturers of automobiles would be the United States and Germany. #1 the United States is the country I live in and I will gladly support our workers and economy any day of the week. #2 German cars have a very great reputation for being the best in the world. Just remember, we are talking about a 12-20 year old car here. How many 60's and 70's Japanese models of cars do you see on the road today? From what I've seen from the 80's models, they rust like you can't believe and the paint jobs don't hold up either. No, I will not get into a battle over who is close minded and who is not. But until the day you have the power to spend my money, I'm going to fight ignorant comments.
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by rsrdan:
<strong>One is a piece of German enginering,and the other's are JUNKanese!!!</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Gotta loved the closed minded ignorant responses on these boards.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Because I have great disdain for Japanese products makes me a closed minded, ignorant fool?? I've had my experiences in the past with all types of automobiles. My favorite manufacturers of automobiles would be the United States and Germany. #1 the United States is the country I live in and I will gladly support our workers and economy any day of the week. #2 German cars have a very great reputation for being the best in the world. Just remember, we are talking about a 12-20 year old car here. How many 60's and 70's Japanese models of cars do you see on the road today? From what I've seen from the 80's models, they rust like you can't believe and the paint jobs don't hold up either. No, I will not get into a battle over who is close minded and who is not. But until the day you have the power to spend my money, I'm going to fight ignorant comments.
05-21-2003, 04:22 PM
#15
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Ok, I am going to answer this from my perspective.
Handling by far the winner is the 944s2 (why? well the Rx7 squims away from you. expecially if it has the electronic options.The supra is a very fat car that has alot of extra heft. The 944 is perfect balance but maintains its composure at the limits.
Speed? I am going to use 1/4mile times on this.
Porsche 944s2 14.7 Toyota Supra 15.1(again weight)
Mazda Rx7 15.0
Ride Quality? I would say there all really close. I say supra then Rx7 then 944.
Interior styling and comfert levels? I say for styling I would rate it as 944 , then supra then Rx7 (personaly find the rx7 interior to be to busy) Comfert levels? I would say supra then Rx7 then 944s2.
Build Quality? 944 hands down is the better built car. Then I say I don't really know between the other two.
Reliability? Supra is top then the RX7 then the 944
Overall winner depends on what the car is going to be used for.
Handling by far the winner is the 944s2 (why? well the Rx7 squims away from you. expecially if it has the electronic options.The supra is a very fat car that has alot of extra heft. The 944 is perfect balance but maintains its composure at the limits.
Speed? I am going to use 1/4mile times on this.
Porsche 944s2 14.7 Toyota Supra 15.1(again weight)
Mazda Rx7 15.0
Ride Quality? I would say there all really close. I say supra then Rx7 then 944.
Interior styling and comfert levels? I say for styling I would rate it as 944 , then supra then Rx7 (personaly find the rx7 interior to be to busy) Comfert levels? I would say supra then Rx7 then 944s2.
Build Quality? 944 hands down is the better built car. Then I say I don't really know between the other two.
Reliability? Supra is top then the RX7 then the 944
Overall winner depends on what the car is going to be used for.