</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by brrt50cal:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by Kierf - ¿§?:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by rsrdan:
<strong>One is a piece of German enginering,and the other's are JUNKanese!!!</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Gotta loved the closed minded ignorant responses on these boards. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Because I have great disdain for Japanese products makes me a closed minded, ignorant fool?? I've had my experiences in the past with all types of automobiles. My favorite manufacturers of automobiles would be the United States and Germany. #1 the United States is the country I live in and I will gladly support our workers and economy any day of the week. #2 German cars have a very great reputation for being the best in the world. Just remember, we are talking about a 12-20 year old car here. How many 60's and 70's Japanese models of cars do you see on the road today? From what I've seen from the 80's models, they rust like you can't believe and the paint jobs don't hold up either. No, I will not get into a battle over who is close minded and who is not. But until the day you have the power to spend my money, I'm going to fight ignorant comments.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Sorry, but your comments WERE ignorant and close minded, or at least that is the perception that I also got from your comments.

Rust? How many 70's & 80's GM / Ford / Chrysler
products DON'T have rust? How many older MB's, VW's, even Porsches don't have rust? They all do! Galvanized steel wasn't around back then.
It's not a question of WHERE the car was produced, it's a question of WHEN it was produced!

No older Japanese cars around anymore? Japan didn't really start importing their cars to the US until the 70's. Go anywhere else in the world besides the US, and you'll see plenty of older, FINER examples of Japanese sports cars. Your opinion is from a USA perspective: you have to think broader to get the big picture.

Paint? You know what the best way to tell if a Porsche has been repainted? If the paint finish is smooth, it was re-painted. The factory did a horrific job of painting: it had an orange peel texture to it!

If anyone's ignorant, it's you.
-Z-man.

 

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by brrt50cal:
<strong>How many 60's and 70's Japanese models of cars do you see on the road today? From what I've seen from the 80's models, they rust like you can't believe and the paint jobs don't hold up either. No, I will not get into a battle over who is close minded and who is not. But until the day you have the power to spend my money, I'm going to fight ignorant comments.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">The Japanese didn't export many vehicles to the US, or anywhere else for that matter in the '60s and early '70s. That being said, I still see a fair amount of old Japanese vehicles on the road. In fact, I owned one. A 1979 Honda Prelude...my second Prelude to date.

How else was I supposed to perceive your comment? You said that the others were junk because they are Japanese...nothing else. I don't think of Japanese cars as junk. I've owned three, and as soon as I sell my Porsche, I'll own another.

 

Don't forget that the largest U.S. car exporter is.. HONDA !!! Excluding trucks or else GM would be #1.

Here's some things that really bug me about the German Engineering on our cars:

- plastic ball-joint cups

- front-wheel bearings, who decided on undersized bearings anyway? At least the 996 got a Toyota truck bearing

- bolts for throttle-cable and dipstick

- interference engine, this can be debated on performance issues, but on my Supra, I forgot to tighten the cam-pulley and it slipped off 1000 miles later. Slipped the belt off and car died. I fixed it by putting the belt back on and really cranking down on the bolt... all on the side of the freeway, then I took off. Try that with our 'German' cars.

- manual cam belt-tensioner, compare that to a Honda/Nissan automatic hydraulic tensioner. No need to ever, ever adjust belt-tension. No wonder the belt-replacement intervals on these cars are 100K-miles.

- radiator bleeding, on all cars I've ever had, bubbles work their way to the radiator cap. You just fill to the top and replace cap, that's it! None of this squeezing/burping the radiator hose or parking on an incline to send bubbles to the bleeder screw.

- thermostat snap-ring. Yah, Hans & Frans strikes again. On all the other cars I've seen the thermostat is on the upper-radiator hose. That's the housing on our cars that have the bleeder screw. Wouldn't be to tough to put the thermostat there, and replacing it would be a cinch.

- window switch ergonomics.. 'nuff said.

- proprietary 5x130mm wheel bolt-pattern. Gee, let's make it so they can't pick from a wide variety of aftermarket wheels @ only $450/set.

- routing the fuel-lines OVER the hot headers, eh?

 

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by Danno:
<strong>- routing the fuel-lines OVER the hot headers, eh?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">That has stumped me before...why did Porsche do that? I know GM did it with the Pontiac Fiero...with horrible results...that is, if you think a Fiero with a burning engine is horrible. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

 

Not sure that comparing these cars as delivered from the factory is fair. Which is easier/better to upgrade? For instance I was reading a website the other day that charged $5400 for a Supra 3rd gen kit that makes 600rwhp! If I started with that instead of my 951 I would have spent the same amount for car/upgrades, and with the 951 I'm at like 350 rwhp maybe! How much would it cost for a 600 rwhp 951??

It all comes down to what you like/want. No matter how good or bad a car was designed, someone somewhere loves it!

 

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by Danno:
<strong>Don't forget that the largest U.S. car exporter is.. HONDA !!! Excluding trucks or else GM would be #1.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">I find that to be pretty irrelevant in this argument. Honda makes very reliable, low-cost economy cars. We're talking about performance cars. It's a totally different market.

 

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by Kierf - ¿§?:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by brrt50cal:
[qb]</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">The Japanese didn't export many vehicles to the US, or anywhere else for that matter in the '60s and early '70s. That being said, I still see a fair amount of old Japanese vehicles on the road. In fact, I owned one. A 1979 Honda Prelude...my second Prelude to date.

How else was I supposed to perceive your comment? You said that the others were junk because they are Japanese...nothing else. I don't think of Japanese cars as junk. I've owned three, and as soon as I sell my Porsche, I'll own another.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">I didn't make the comment to begin with. I was just sticking up for the guy who DID make it. I guess my 69 GTO is a POS too since it doesn't have a "Made in Japan" sticker on it.

 

i owned a 2nd gen rx7. IT felt solid, but all the plastic disintegrated on me. And it really wasn't that cheap. Flash to pass lenses are $90. whoa

 

I like these kind of threads... they go on and on and on and on..........

 

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by brrt50cal:
<strong>I didn't make the comment to begin with. I was just sticking up for the guy who DID make it. I guess my 69 GTO is a POS too since it doesn't have a "Made in Japan" sticker on it.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Aye...I'd like to hear a reponse from the guy who originally made the comment (care to comment, rsrdan?).

As for the Goat...I'm not a fan of American muscle cars. I like old American cars. I almost bought myself a 1932 Buick Special.

 

I drove one of those Supra turbos (the one w/ the dash button that changes the suspension firmness?), apologies to fans of that car, but it was a pig! Too heavy and gushy, not enough juice for that kinda weight. It's like they couldn't decide if they wanted to build a sports car or a luxury car and they got neither.
My only experiece w/ the RX7 T-II was at an autocross. I was driving my stock '86 951 and the rx7 guy had nearly identical times to mine with identical tires. I talked to him afterwards, turns out he had a large number of upgrades, I think he was dissapointed to learn that my car was stock. I don't know how experienced the guy was, but he was not new to auto-x. The 951 isn't nearly the car for auto-x that the S2 is. My vote goes to the S2 for sure over both those. I would put the RX-7 TII in the same category as E30 M3's (another overrated car) and 944S's. The newer Supras and RX-7s are an entirely different story.

 

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by Kierf - ¿§?:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by brrt50cal:
<strong>I didn't make the comment to begin with. I was just sticking up for the guy who DID make it. I guess my 69 GTO is a POS too since it doesn't have a "Made in Japan" sticker on it.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Aye...I'd like to hear a reponse from the guy who originally made the comment (care to comment, rsrdan?).

As for the Goat...I'm not a fan of American muscle cars. I like old American cars. I almost bought myself a 1932 Buick Special. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Oh dear...how can you not be a fan of American muscle. John DeLorean and Jim Wangers started the affordable, powerful car trend. Their innovations led to many of the cars we have today. American muscle can't be beat because of the amazing amount of power they have and their reliability. A '68 Ram Air 400 Firebird killed me on the highway. I was doing 132 while he was almost a mile ahead of me. That amount of power can't be matched for the price.

 

I'm just not a fan of 'em. I've been around imports almost my entire life (all 22 years of it). From about 1955 onward...I really don't like domestics. Never have.

I would prefer to have something like a 2.0L Japanese 4-cylinder turbo over something like a 454. I'm since the introduction of the Corvette ZR-1 and now the C5, I've appreciated American muscle more so than before. DeLorean, Cudas, GTOs and whatnot were all before my time.

 

lets look at list prices when these cars were new. road & track compared the S2 to the 300zx when they both were introduced. specs were close to the same, z won as an everyday driver, easier to use...

z cost about 2/3 the price of the S2. Z was more money than the rx7!

what was the sticker of an S2 cabrio? the sticker of my loaded rx7 convertible was 27/28. now lets talk about value for the money.

why are more old porsches around? because the same dentists and damn lawyers that had caddys for everyday bought the vettes and porsches when new. the rx7s and supras were bought by lowlifes like me and used.

 

i have a picture of my firebird autographed by jim wangers. it says something about it being a goat by any name.