cylan

So I drove to work this morning in my '87 S. It ran fine, just like it normally has, ran the engine up near redline a couple of times, no problems.

Leaving the office today, I start the car and the engine is now rattling/ticking rather loudly. Frequency of the ticks/rattles increases with engine speed. Any ideas on what the problem could be?

More info:
I checked the oil on the dipstick and it didn't look like milkshake, though to my knowlege the oil cooler seals have not yet been replaced. I've got Mobil 1 50-weight in it right now.

Timing belt was replaced back in october, and was due for tensioning soon. Balance shaft belt & water pump were replaced at the same time. Timing chain tensioner was replaced in December.

This is one problem I hoped to never need to face

cie_lab

could be just about anything. Where specifically is the sound coming from? If it's from under the valve cover, could just be low oil.

Rock

Mobile one 0W-50?

Get that vinegar out of there. Especially as hot as it gets in texas. Your lifters are most likely ticking. Replace it with some heavier stuff.

jstand22

A loud "contact" clicking would be your lifters, while a softer more dull clicking would be the fuel injectors. First off as Rock said if you're in Texas 0-50 is not the best idea (not sure if you made a typo and do have 20-50) you should use 20w-50. Also checking the dipstick was the right move, but not for a milkshake, sometimes the lifters will click if your oil level is low, or the pressure isn't high enough. I have an S as well and the lifter noise can elevate quickly in a way different from the 8V cars if not addressed. The lifters under the intake cam will click first because they are the highest point in the engine, which is probably what you're hearing. Then if the head isn't getting enough oil, or pressure, the exhaust lifters may chime in. I've only heard both sets of lifters click a twice in my car, what a f-ing racket!

kevincnc

A small exhaust leak, like a little chunk of gasket missing at the exhaust manifold can sound like a "tick" also.

cylan

Thanks for the replies everyone. I've since checked the coolant tank and it looks like like plain coolant, no oil mixture. So that isn't an issue (for now).

I know for certain that the oil isn't 0W-50, although which "#W" it was I don't immediately recall (may have been 5W). Correct me if I'm wrong though, but I was under the impression that the "#W" was only applicable when the oil temperature was cold, and once warmed up it assumed the weight rating given after the dash?

I started the car again and listened to the noise briefly, and it does sound like it's coming from the cam tower area (and not deeper from within the block). It's hard to get a good fix on precisely where, but I guess it didn't sound like it was coming from the pistons or lower (I'm guessing something more catastrophic like a piston/valve collision would be a bit more jarring, eh?) The oil level on the dipstick seemed like it was above the upper mark on the measuring area, but it has been a while since I've added any oil and I still don't have a good feel for how much oil the engine burns (I've only had the car since October).

I'll get some heavier oil and top it off tomorrow, and check the exhaust port area for signs of damage. I really should have had 'oil change' on the list of things to do shortly anyway.

white924s

be careful not to overfill the oil - if the dipstick says that its full when you check it, then its probably not low oil.

Has the car been sitting for a while? It oculd be that the lifters are getting dry and collapsing. My car had that problem when I got it - if I didn't drive it for a few weeks (or months - NH winters are no fun for sports car guys) the lifters would start collapsing, making a ticking noise. Usually it would go away after a little driving (oil getting worked in to them) but eventually it got to the point where I replaced them because I didn't like the noise or the fear of something going wrong with the valvetrain

Rock

Youre fine. Just change the oil. The lifters on my 951 tick if the oil gets too old. How long has it been since youve changed the oil?

Swap the oil out and youll be ok. If not then a lifter might be going south.

fliphkd7

Perhaps it is something with the tensioner or chain? Maybe the ramps are worn?

cylan

An update: I did an oil change, this time putting in Mobil 1 15W-50. Unfortunately, it didn't fix the problem. It did seem to help slightly, but the valves still keep on rattling.

So, I guess I'll take the valve cover off tomorrow and see if there's anything unusual in there. Is there anything in particular I should look for? (aside from anything obviously amiss) If it is a lifter (or lifters) which have gone bad, just how often does that happen (and why?), and how easy are they to replace?

namespace

Hi

You won't be doing that, I am afraid! It's not a cover, taking the cam tower off will mean taking the belts off too. (I assumed the same when I first got the car and was doing my head gasket and quickly realised.)

As mentioned before, you may have a failed lifter(s), you said in the first post that you were running a low weight oil and you redlined it a couple of times, you may have not given the top end enough lube with the thin oil.

15/50 to me seems a little low too, Texas weather would be similar to down here in Summer, I have had similar issues in other older cars running thin oil in hot weather, using thicker oil has fixed those issues.

Rock

If it didnt fix it, then its not the problem. A fresh batch of 15/50 would silence the sound even if it may just be for a little while.

Now we have to start looking at alternatives.

I remember Special Tool telling me one time that injector tick, caused by a failed fuel pressure damper can cause almost identical sounds as lifter tick. Try sourcing where the sound is coming from. If it is something with the valvetrain, its a good chance its only affecting one or two valves, not all sixteen.

cylan

I have an S, with the 16V engine so it's a little different from the NAs. There is actually a cam cover which can be removed without needing to take any other part off except the spark plugs. I've had it off before to replace the timing chain tensioner.

If 15W-50 is thin, what do you consider thick oil? There really isn't a whole lot that I know of which is thicker, and what there is seems only marginally thicker or is some off-brand 60-weight stuff, a weight which I don't recall seeing anyone on these forums recommend.

Just noticed the pelican parts header for lifters states, "Very often, the 944 lifters have a tendency to crack." Guess I'll do some searches and see how many past issues people have had that this would correlate to.

namespace

sorry mate, my bad, didn't realise it was a 16V.

I have used this oil the past 4 changes, car has run better on it than the 20/50 I used before, but as you say, different engine.

http://www.penrite.com.au/html/s02_a...&nav_top_id=55

This oil was recommended by my mate who is a Volvo & Peugeot technician and also the guy at the auto shop who is an ex mechanic.

As Rock says, you need to source where the noise is coming from, we could try the 'stethoscope' technique - get a hose or piece of tubing, hold it up to your ear and run the other end over the engine, the ticking will be amplified as you get nearer. I am not a mechanic. just a DIYer like most here, so I can't offer any sound advice, just what's worked for me in the past.

Cheers

cylan

Ok, some news:

The good part is, I think I found the problem! I took the valve cover off and I was able to see immediately that the ticking wasn't coming from any of the lifters. So, what was it?


...


Either I was a dumbass and forgot to tighten the mounting bolts on the chain tensioner or they backed out. Either way, they weren't in their sockets, and the tensioner was anchored only by the bolt through the cam cover.

Somewhat good news: Damage seems very minimal (phew). And, I found *a* bolt. The trouble is, there are supposed to be *two*.

Well, crap! Anyone ever dropped a bolt down one of the oil galleys before, and if so, how did you get it out? Can I hold out hope for it ending up in the oil pan?