97xray

So how does the car repay me for all my labor this weekend???
It just sits there and makes a very hushed wine instead of turning over. Actually, it was a cyclic high pitch slurpy type sound (oh that's helpful, eh?). All other systems seem to check out except fuel, which I don't know how to visually inspect.
This weekend I installed new front inserts (the PO had KYB in there - disgusting!), new ball joints, new bushings, and for good measure, I had the rotors re-surfaced.
So, NOTHING electrical or even motor-related was touched on the car this weekend.

However, last night, on a post-suspension work test drive, I heard a high pitch (albeit quiet) squeel from the passenger rear.
Could I have a clogged fuel filter? What about the fuel pump?
I checked the battery - not only is it less than three months old but I tried turning over off my Nissan's battery (which has worked all too MANY times in years past) and the same thing happened.
So, plenty of current.
What's going on?
Additional Note: For the past two weeks, I've noticed a lag between when I turn the ignition the final step (and when all the instrument lights turn on) and the actual cranking. Before this problem this morning, that lag was never more than 3 seconds.

adrian_jaye

usuall culprit is DME relay,

pull the relay, blow in the contacts and make sure all contacst are clean,

push back in, and also check all the other relasy and fuses are pushed home and not blown

97xray

If the relay is blown, how will I know? Is there a visual que?
(By the way, I would never have thought of the relays; deaf dumb and blind am I)

adrian_jaye

relay's "generally" dont blow
as they are a mechanical part, they are prone to sticking and corroded contacts

I've experienced this before (and read about others problems)

I had a weird problem, started the car, got to top of road, stopped for 5 minutes, got back in car, and she just would not start.

That was untill I pulled the relays out, blew on them, and shoved it back in !

fired up straight away.
DME relay is a common culprit, usually signs is just turning and not firing, of course the other relay is the Fuel pump relay.

best thing is to remove the relays, give the contacts a bit of a wipe down with very "fine" sand paper, blow in the contacts in the fuse box and see.

also get a spare DME relay and keep in the car at all times.

it wont hurt changing the relay about $30 (?)

I know you can bypass the relay with a few bits of wire, but dont nkow the pin outs to do this , plus its justr a quick get you home fix.

give that a try and see if you get any joy

car_slave

So the starter is not doing anything? Check the battery connections and give them a good cleaning, if that does not work then clean the starter connections.

Skip

I'm confused - is the engine turning over? If not, you have a power/electrical problem. From your other description, would lead me to believe possibly the igntion switch is going, going, gone. Otherwise, check the grounds for the battery and starter - and, check the power to the starter. Clean all contacts. If it is not turning over, fuel is the least of your problems.

Also, if this buzzing/hissing sound is happening as you try to start the engine then could it be the starter is spinning but the solenoid is not engaging. Do you have a glazed look on your face yet? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

Good Luck!

97xray

Skip, Long time no talky!
I just touched the ignition bypass post on the starter and it jumped to life: BUT only if Bridget was turning the key. Coicidence? I have no clue!
So, when I just touched the started ignition bypass with the 12V jumper, lots of noise, but no turn over (no injection (obviously?)).
I'm not dazed yet - but I'm close!
I noticed your relays are only $19.90 or something (good news) but I'm not convinced it's not the switch in the steering column (ignition).

And yeah, fuel trouble was only my niave first guess!
Clearly the motor is fine, the battery is fine, and the starter seems to work great, it's either the relay or ignition switch, how can I tell?
Thanks.
Jake

97xray

So, I am now thinking that the starter is spinning but not engaging.
What do I do with that? And why does it engage when I touch the ignition bypass post on the starter?

Skip

Methinks you misunderstand or overestimate the functions of the DME relay. It only affects fuel and spark, not turning the engine over or starter engagement.

If the starter made noise when you bumped it with power, but did not engage the flywheel, then your solenoid is not working properly. These can die suddenly, and the there is not replacement. The starter_and_solenoid are one unit. But, just to be sure we are talking apples-to-apples, please verify that the engine is not turning over.

You can do this several ways, but the easiest sure way is to remove the ingition cap (where the plug wires go). You'll be able to see the ignition rotor within - have Bridget watch for it to spin as you turn the key to start. Don't worry, it won't come off and hit her.

If it doesn't spin, then there's one final check (the reason I have you check the rotor first). Have a look down thru the fron of the engine at the crank pulley (drives the accessories) - be sure it is not spinning also. If it is spinning, and you're rotor is not, then you need a new timing belt to go with the bent valves.

Good Luck!

adrial

If when you jumped the starter...it turned the engine as normal...then your problem is relatively simple.

There's really not much to controlling the starter.

Basically the main power is always supplied to the starter, and what triggers it is a low voltage "TURN!" signal that comes from the ignition switch. That's it!

So, go from there...take the connector off the back of the ignition switch (it's doable..well, I did it with my smallish hands)...clean it maybe, stick it back on and see if it works...

I had this problem for 2 days...finally got it dealt with...feel free to ask away if that is indeed your problem.

Good luck,

Adrial

97xray

Okay, Skip:
I just sent an email off your way, but to be clear:
The first thing I did (and didn't mention) was verify that the rotor wasn't spinning, nor are the belts.
When I touch the 12V jumper to the starter post (the one called "ignition bypass" in the repair manual) THEN it cranks and starts up like the BEAST is it!
However, the larger post when fed 12V does NOTHING but spin the solenoid.

So now that I have the steering column apart and am boggled that you got that darn plug out - what's the trick Adrial???

Tom Carson

the 924 and the 83 944 ignition should be the same

<a href="http://www.924.org/techsection/12body.htm#2%20-%20Ignition%20Lock%20Removal/Replacement" target="_blank">http://www.924.org/techsection/12body.htm#2%20-%20Ignition%20Lock%20Removal/Replacement</a>

btw...the DME/fuel pump 'relay' in the early 944 controls only the fuel pump from looking at the schematic