What Non-PORSCHE Motors Will Fit in a 944?
07-18-2021, 08:37 PM
#61
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Join Date: Oct 2009
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I don't know how a sorted Audi turbo variant compares to an LSx swap.
Regardless of what anyone says: Your general view/philosophy of a German/ Audi engine vs a USA/ GM LSx engine in an ancient car for the masses, with it's superb handling ability will drive the 'dogma' of what should be done.
Two hundred and eighty five ******** have given their opinion on here over the last 12~15 years--from Euro posters talking trash to super nice guy, Tony G destroying >$300k track Ferrari's at Willow Springs and Fontana.
Everyone has blown up an engine. Sometimes 2 or 3. V8 owners have sold their cars and moved on too. One cool V8-er changed to Audi. Porsche to Goodwrench to Audi. Now that's a thing! An Audi implant is an immense undertaking. Is it still necessary to say, 'there's no correct answer'?
30+ years of maintaining and driving 944's, 968's, and (now) a V8 968, i've put >300k miles on them: They all require/d a TON of love, upkeep-sobriety, diligence and a fair amount of time off the road. Sometimes maintenance has been deferred. You do the work not long after it comes due--or you pay.
The performance of a GM engine running in these cars is legit [omfg]. The GM V8 is a better engine than oem. My blueprinted, short stroke LS7 [is totally insane]. The Audi I-5 is also a much better engine than oem [the original I-5 driiven by Walter Rohrl set course records still holding up 34 years later] https://rallygroupbshrine.org/the-gr...kes-peak-1987/
Once you have EITHER of these running in your car, you have a off script--non oem build. It isn't insignificant. Never will be.
Once getting older, the only thing that mattered was having a nice running 968 that could drive a long way with some spirited driving i'd do with a 911S or Cayman. i'm not going to drive like someone drives a 911 GT2 at Sebring on the weekend/s. But our ego's surely play into building a car that can do something other cars might do equally well: (a topic for later).
My car has been driven very sorted.
When all the suspension and bushings are up to date,
it's a proper supercar. It's fast, safe and good. really good.
Consider: the car was built in October 1994.
Take it on the wild roads of Utah or any mountain road.
For a car of this era: fu king insane.
For reliability, a sorted V8 swap today probably falls somewhere between an new n/a 944 and a new 944T or 968. Maybe better. They all chew through motor mounts (the biggest challenge since my V8 swap). V8 or Audi: much vigilance will be required. You're driving a highly modified car with not-oem stuff from the fuel lines, oil lines, transaxles running hot, hydroboost brakes, and older cars needing plenty of TLC. I'm sure a well done Audi engine swap is a similar enjoyable car to drive and own.
With plenty of help along the way (including Tony G, Rob M/ a.k.a. XSChop, Mike Goki, the installer, and the departed D.B. I had a successful build. Ego got fed: i pulled into Cars and Coffee in Malibu one day in 2018, and a local guy with the most perfect Speedster said loudly to whomever could hear, "Wait til you see the engine. It's one of the fastest [968's] in the world."
Likely not: There's 30 or 40 crazy 3.0 turbo's running about somewhere. Tremendous oem Turbo S and conversion builds with engines (not) courting meltdown.
I stopped counting at $106K for (cosmetic) and performance upgrades, 993 headlamps, leather, etc + the V8 swap, transmission build, and sorting over a few years.... *(Purchase for 2 owners + the upkeep of the original engine. was nearly $100k for the oem, semi-exotic to reach 199k miles before pullout).
Drive it: stuff will inevitably break.
There's more to do: in the next couple of years, a possible engine out--to make the swap closer to "right," that firewall reinforcement kit people do, maybe coat the exhaust, new motor mounts again. Other stuff comes along. It never ends.
The experience driving/ owning my V8 968 has been good/great. 7 times LA to Boston, all over out west, Colorado mountains, Utah twisties, coming back back East, w/ trips to Florida in between. then, doing it again--over and over.
The car gets tired. A ton of wear on the suspension and parts you'll think of (less). i've also run a bit late on rear shocks once or twice. You see the result of force put on the oem monster 968 M030 swaybar mounts/bushings. 250 k miles had done a number on the steering rack. It came time to do that.
Hot: The V8, driving on a hot summer day in [stop and go] city traffic challenges the limits of the cooling system. i've had to stop once or twice on a trip up I-84 in Southern Connecticut. i love the fitment of my oil cooler to my 997 style duct. But it needs to be replaced with a bigger cooler--
Otherwise, 98.3% of the driving has been worry free.
For this $$$, I could have timed the market for an F-430 (2012~14). The F-430: yes, (that) please.
Everything outpaces the poor reliability of an almost new low-mile 944T owned back in ~1986-93. In 1990, i had a very low mile '87S. My friend had an '88 944T. My car was an ~8.5/10 (not 9.5/10 because it was slow compared to a 944T). His car was fun to drive. It was also a p.i.t.a. with (bad/nightmare) maintenance issues from only commuting, normal driving with a bit of fun added.
Despite the mythology given to the 944T, what might have been Porsche's finest hour, fell well-short of the money customers invested.
More than one tech with years/decades experience has informed a new buyer: "The 944 platform is/has been one of the most expensive Porsche's to own. It is extensively well-documented."
Regardless of what anyone says: Your general view/philosophy of a German/ Audi engine vs a USA/ GM LSx engine in an ancient car for the masses, with it's superb handling ability will drive the 'dogma' of what should be done.
Two hundred and eighty five ******** have given their opinion on here over the last 12~15 years--from Euro posters talking trash to super nice guy, Tony G destroying >$300k track Ferrari's at Willow Springs and Fontana.
Everyone has blown up an engine. Sometimes 2 or 3. V8 owners have sold their cars and moved on too. One cool V8-er changed to Audi. Porsche to Goodwrench to Audi. Now that's a thing! An Audi implant is an immense undertaking. Is it still necessary to say, 'there's no correct answer'?
30+ years of maintaining and driving 944's, 968's, and (now) a V8 968, i've put >300k miles on them: They all require/d a TON of love, upkeep-sobriety, diligence and a fair amount of time off the road. Sometimes maintenance has been deferred. You do the work not long after it comes due--or you pay.
The performance of a GM engine running in these cars is legit [omfg]. The GM V8 is a better engine than oem. My blueprinted, short stroke LS7 [is totally insane]. The Audi I-5 is also a much better engine than oem [the original I-5 driiven by Walter Rohrl set course records still holding up 34 years later] https://rallygroupbshrine.org/the-gr...kes-peak-1987/
Once you have EITHER of these running in your car, you have a off script--non oem build. It isn't insignificant. Never will be.
Once getting older, the only thing that mattered was having a nice running 968 that could drive a long way with some spirited driving i'd do with a 911S or Cayman. i'm not going to drive like someone drives a 911 GT2 at Sebring on the weekend/s. But our ego's surely play into building a car that can do something other cars might do equally well: (a topic for later).
My car has been driven very sorted.
When all the suspension and bushings are up to date,
it's a proper supercar. It's fast, safe and good. really good.
Consider: the car was built in October 1994.
Take it on the wild roads of Utah or any mountain road.
For a car of this era: fu king insane.
For reliability, a sorted V8 swap today probably falls somewhere between an new n/a 944 and a new 944T or 968. Maybe better. They all chew through motor mounts (the biggest challenge since my V8 swap). V8 or Audi: much vigilance will be required. You're driving a highly modified car with not-oem stuff from the fuel lines, oil lines, transaxles running hot, hydroboost brakes, and older cars needing plenty of TLC. I'm sure a well done Audi engine swap is a similar enjoyable car to drive and own.
With plenty of help along the way (including Tony G, Rob M/ a.k.a. XSChop, Mike Goki, the installer, and the departed D.B. I had a successful build. Ego got fed: i pulled into Cars and Coffee in Malibu one day in 2018, and a local guy with the most perfect Speedster said loudly to whomever could hear, "Wait til you see the engine. It's one of the fastest [968's] in the world."
Likely not: There's 30 or 40 crazy 3.0 turbo's running about somewhere. Tremendous oem Turbo S and conversion builds with engines (not) courting meltdown.
I stopped counting at $106K for (cosmetic) and performance upgrades, 993 headlamps, leather, etc + the V8 swap, transmission build, and sorting over a few years.... *(Purchase for 2 owners + the upkeep of the original engine. was nearly $100k for the oem, semi-exotic to reach 199k miles before pullout).
Drive it: stuff will inevitably break.
There's more to do: in the next couple of years, a possible engine out--to make the swap closer to "right," that firewall reinforcement kit people do, maybe coat the exhaust, new motor mounts again. Other stuff comes along. It never ends.
The experience driving/ owning my V8 968 has been good/great. 7 times LA to Boston, all over out west, Colorado mountains, Utah twisties, coming back back East, w/ trips to Florida in between. then, doing it again--over and over.
The car gets tired. A ton of wear on the suspension and parts you'll think of (less). i've also run a bit late on rear shocks once or twice. You see the result of force put on the oem monster 968 M030 swaybar mounts/bushings. 250 k miles had done a number on the steering rack. It came time to do that.
Hot: The V8, driving on a hot summer day in [stop and go] city traffic challenges the limits of the cooling system. i've had to stop once or twice on a trip up I-84 in Southern Connecticut. i love the fitment of my oil cooler to my 997 style duct. But it needs to be replaced with a bigger cooler--
Otherwise, 98.3% of the driving has been worry free.
For this $$$, I could have timed the market for an F-430 (2012~14). The F-430: yes, (that) please.
Everything outpaces the poor reliability of an almost new low-mile 944T owned back in ~1986-93. In 1990, i had a very low mile '87S. My friend had an '88 944T. My car was an ~8.5/10 (not 9.5/10 because it was slow compared to a 944T). His car was fun to drive. It was also a p.i.t.a. with (bad/nightmare) maintenance issues from only commuting, normal driving with a bit of fun added.
Despite the mythology given to the 944T, what might have been Porsche's finest hour, fell well-short of the money customers invested.
More than one tech with years/decades experience has informed a new buyer: "The 944 platform is/has been one of the most expensive Porsche's to own. It is extensively well-documented."
Last edited by odurandina; 07-18-2021 at 11:59 PM.
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09-10-2021, 09:15 PM
#64
Rennlist Member
11-03-2021, 04:20 PM
#65
1st Gear
Join Date: Nov 2021
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Has anyone ever considered doing a VG30DETT swap in a 944? The amount of power you can supposedly push out of those things for $1500 with transmission, harness and turbos included seems pretty alluring. I'm looking at picking up either an 84 or 85 944 currently and I'm heavily considering attempting a VG30DETT swap some time later down the line as one of my friends just finished rebuilding his garage.
Does anyone know how large these engines really are compared to something like an LS1, which is well known to fit in the engine bay of a 944?
Does anyone know how large these engines really are compared to something like an LS1, which is well known to fit in the engine bay of a 944?
