ribs

Well...I finished the front of the car today, and everything went very quickly and smoothly. The motor looks 400% better than it did before, especially with powdercoated stuff and all that. I was so excited when I got done bolting everything together that I almost started the car with no oil in it! Well...good thing I didn't, so anyways, I get my 7 quarts of vavoline 20W50 and start pouring it in the oil filler. It goes slow as sludge, but after 5 quarts are in I decide to check my oil level...first big problem...I was checking my air level as I didn't get the f'ing upper half of the dipstick tube into the lower half! Big deal...wouldn't take me 20 minutes to fix. So, I look under the car to see if there are any leaks, and, of course, it was dripping out of the stripped out oil banjo bolt.

****!!!!!!!mopk[klmoip098-jkl;'.ntrewq093jkl;ogfdswakl;'hjkl;'fdsahjkl;';'1l;'432`12dsaw

wOW. I think I just busted a knuckle from punching the keyboard so many times. I pull the oil banjo bolt out from the side and notice that a couple more flakes of metal came out on the bolt! So I continued to strip it when I thought I had it tight, it was just visibly tight (and tight from stripping threads, not from going the last half a rotation it probably would have needed to seal properly), not ***** tight like it should be. The inside looks worse than it did last time I had the bolt out. I tried cleaning it out as well as I did last time and putting teflon tape on the banjo bolt to attempt to seal anything bad. No dice...it didn't even get within 1/2 an inch of the oilpan when I tried tightening it down.

I have a feeling I am going to need a new oilpan. Ugh. I feel like I have been repeatedly kicked in the ***** very very hard. I wish my car would fix it self. I really need to get drunk right now, but its 5:30 in the morning...****, I'll have a couple of beers before I hit the sack.

So anyways, I'm going to have the owner of the import tuner shop I have been getting small things done at and borrowing a couple of tools from (tonight, I had to borrow a dremmel to cut the old fuel line crimps so I could install the stainless lines, and I turned the dremmel on in the shop making sure it was operational and hit the shaft lock instead of off button...about 2 minutes later it started smoking real bad...it doesn't work anymore, but he had an old busted one that me and his mom's boyfriend fixed, so I used that...good thing he bought an extended warranty on the dremmel) come take a look at it tomorrow and tell me if it is salvageable or not. I am leaning towards not salvageable. So, I am living in hell right now...I'm getting the axle fixed on my toyota tomorrow and I am leaving this ghost town (spring break in a college town) and not even attempting to think about my car for the rest of the weekend...it is just too upsetting. I don't have a clue what caused the hole in the pan to get all ****ed up. I cleaned all of the threads (maybe I didn't clean them enough? Would a small pebble caught in the oilpan hole's threads be able to cause this?), started the bolt in by hand, after a few rotations I started using a wrench, and not being the brightest duck in the pond kept on spinning the banjo bolt after it got difficult to spin. Lesson learned.

Questions (all assuming that I am ****ed with this oilpan):

1. Keith, how in the hell did you get the crossover pipe off without pulling the intake manifold? Do you have all of your nuts welded to the back of the turbo flange? I really really wish I waited an extra day and got the pipe cut and flanged...maybe next time. I spent about 20 minutes looking at the whole set up there trying to figure out what keith could do to make it happen...I figure if you remove the master cylinder heat shield it might yield you enough wiggling room to do it, but probably not (its already super tight with the intake off).

1.5. If I disconnected the intake manifold from all connections (hmm...lets see...all the vacuum lines coming out of it, intercooler pipe, dipstick tube, coupler bracket, and a couple other doo dads) could I unplug the sparkplug wires, move the braided vacuum lines out of the way, leave the fuelrail intact, and move the manifold over to the passenger's side enough to gain access to the crossover pipe bolts, instead of removing all of the intercooler pipes, air box, fuel rail, etc?

2. In the interest of saving time, would it be possible to remove my strut assembly and drop the whole front suspension (power steering rack, a-arms, brakes/spindles, sway bar, and crossmember) as one unit if I disconnected the powersteering and brake lines, loosened the rear control arm mount, then tried to wiggle the whole damn thing off of the u-joint?

3. Am I going to need new ring gaskets for the x-over pipe?

4. Can I reuse my unused oilpan gasket?

5. Should I get a new oilpan banjo bolt (it looks fine, but...)?

6. Is it realistic if I have everything I need to do this job available to think I could do this in one weekend (friday afternoon, all day saturday, all day sunday)? It took me 35 hours with very little idle time to get it back in one piece (thats just assembly...not including disassembly)...of course I got stuck for long periods of time on several things...hopefully I could cut my assembly time in half. Where in the hell does the tech session procedure write up figure it would take 12 hours? Am I just a super sped, or...well...I do take my time (I degrease *everything* and try to polish up any visible metal with a wirewheel to make it look nice...that could be part of my problem), but still...I wish I could do this all in one sitting...very doubtful though.

I guess thats it for now...I'm going to try to e-mail emily's granny to find out if she has an oilpan or not. Any other suggestions for places to look?

Danno

Don't know the condition of your oil pan, but you can re-use the gasket if it's in good condition. Use some of that Permatek spray-on tacky stuff shown in one of the other threads. Let it dry and stick real well. Put the oil-pan on with light pressure from the bolts. When the sealant really dries and gets tacky, then tighten up the bolts all the way.

As for the turbo return line banjo bolt, I think I know what happened. The length of the line is limited. If you pull the banjo part out to the head of the bolt to expose the threads to screw in, this will angle the bolt away from being perpendicular to the threads. You must keep the banjo tight against the side of the oilpan and thread the bolt into it and the pan at the same time. Good luck!

Thaddeus

I feel it, ribs... good luck.



Thaddeus

jim968

Ribs, sorry 'bout the problem... I know it's no consolation, but we DIYer's typically screw something up, more so when we're novices.

The only correct answer to your problem is to replace the pan; on something as long-term critical as the oil pan & lines, drilling, re-tapping, and using a reducer is a jury-rig that could easily cost you an engine later. Call George B. at 944 Ecology; he's probably got a good used one, and can maybe expedite getting it to you.

And I'm with Danno on this 'un... starting the threads on _any_ banjo bolt with an attached line is a real bitch, with the line tending to pull the bolt out of plumb. The tighter or stiffer the line, the worse it is.

And taking a couple of asprin before you go to bed after a long day of wrenching will reduce the 'fell off a truck' stiff muscle feeling the next day...

Jim, with brass hats coming to visit the lab later this AM... <img src="graemlins/oops.gif" border="0" alt="[oops]" /> <img src="graemlins/icon107.gif" border="0" alt="[icon107]" />

keith

I'll look at the car today and try to visualize the approach and tool list for yoy. I do know that I am working from top AND bottom, I have to remove the dipstick tube, pull the U-joint loose on the steering and remove the O2 sensor and motor mount heat shield to do it. I use a combination of long and stubby wrenches, and a long-handled swivel head (front and back, not side to side) socket wrench and a stubby handled socket wrench. Only one of my nuts id welded. Most of the them are tighten from below, hold the nut captive from the topside, but one (I think) is the other way around. Also, I think one goes in from the motorside, with the nut on the fender side. There is resonable room from below, and I work with a long-handled wrench through the slot above. On wrench may be an offset combination closed-end wrench...

If you decide to chuck that oil pan (i.e. - not useable) let me know.

Good Luck. I'd have to take a break from it at this point, personally. You have to get some space and recharge sometimes, in order to continue with quality work. Get away from it and remember that you LIKE the car. Wish I could pop over there and help you out...

Perry 951

Ribs -

Take the crossmember, hubs, struts, ps rack, etc all out as one unit. Disconnect the PS lines from the pump, calipers from hubs, the 4 nuts on the strut bearings, 1 bolt from steering joint, and the 6 bolts on the A arms. Have a jack under the center of the crossmember, and lower it. Should take you 2 hours tops. I'll get a better PIC if you need one.



The crossover should not be that hard. My 3 nuts are welded to the downpipe, and all I deal with is the 17mm bolts. I can imagine that if they were not welded, it would be a bitch.

As for the pan... get a new one. Do not chance it.

Jason_86_951

Keep going you'll make!!!!!!
I feel your pain!
Good luck!

ribs

Thanks a ton guys! Its such a bitch when you get it back together and something stupid like this happens. I just ordered an oilpan from partwerks for $75 that isn't cosmetically good (a couple of fins cracked or broken off of the bottom) but is 100% mechanical/structural. They are shipping it out tomorrow and I should get it tuesday or wednesday of next week. My oilpan gasket should be fine since I doubt the oil ever got filled up to that point and it is brand new, never used. I'm going to take a few days break from my car, but sunday or monday night I am going to try to disassemble my car to the point where I can get this off. I'll try what perry did with dropping the whole shebang as a unit, and I'll wait for keith to let me know what tools I need. I don't have a swivel head ratchet, but I can go buy one. I'll get a friend to help me with removing the x-over pipe as it sounds like it would be easier if I had somebody overhead to hold the nuts while I twist the bolts off from below. I have all brand new hardware on the x-over pipe so it should go quite smoothly. Danno...I'll follow your procedure for getting the pan gasket in right as this is a procedure (after doing it for the second time) that I don't want to repeat any time soon. Danno...I know for a fact that the bolt went it dead straight as I had the oil line around the opening and the bolt extended out from it. I started the thread by hand (went in very easy, too), and after a few twists I started using the wrench. I think when I had the oilpan out, it was on dirty floor, and it may have picked up a small pebble that got stuck in the threads and didn't come out when I thought I cleaned it up real nice. This is the only thing I could think of as I know better than to crossthread something vital like this.

Oh yeah...should I get new crush rings for the banjo bolt? Where would I be able to find those in that size?

Thanks for the consolation, thad, jason, and jim. Jim, I think I will start drinking more...I don't like asprin.

Keith, it looks like I will be chucking this pan. Do you want it? Let me know more about how to get the x-over pipe out. Thanks again guys...I'll post pictures of my completed car that has to come back apart later on.

superjet.1

have you considered towing it to a place that can weld it up so you can retap the hole?its doable

Lemon Yellow 87 n/a

Ribs!! next time youre out drinking save a cork for the oil pan. Ten bucks and a sixpack of bud says it wont though.....

Dave E

Don't forget to mark the steering shaft and u-joint so you put it back on the same way it was. Ask me how I know!!! <img src="graemlins/c.gif" border="0" alt="[ouch]" />

Peckster

You'll have a hard time finding a welder who would work on an assembled engine. Even if there are no residual gas fumes, you might have a hard time convincing them of that.

jp

keith

Ok Ribs:

17mm stubby combination wrench (open and boxed end)

17mm offset wrench, (boxed end)

17mm combination wrench (open and boxed end)

15mm combination wrench - may be a fluke on my particular car? - (open and boxed end)

Flop-head ratchet (the kind that has a head that goes forward and back, not side to side)

Stubby handled ratchet (has a 3 or 4" handle)

15mm socket, 12 point

17mm socket, 12 point

Aspirin

Creeper

Helper (when I'm by myself, I can usually find something to lock the other end of the dead wrench against.)

That's the list. Let me know if there are more questions - be sure to pull the dipstick tube and I think the throttle cable...


(I'm up for that pan if you are going to chuck it.
E-me and let me know - I'll send you dough for shipping, or swing by on the way to Hershey or something.)

David Floyd

Ribs,
I hope things start going better, you sure are scaring the crap out of me, as I will be installing my 2.82 ltr SFR motor in the near future.

May the force be with you.

<img src="graemlins/burnout.gif" border="0" alt="[burnout]" /> <img src="graemlins/burnout.gif" border="0" alt="[burnout]" />

elf89

Ribs,

You're scaring the hell out of me too, but I admire your guts and determination and have utmost confidence that you will get it back together perfectly.

I also appreciate your sharing this project with this site. I've learned a lot about my NA from your posts and pictures and everyone's responses. Best of luck wrapping this thing up!

<img src="graemlins/drink.gif" border="0" alt="[cherrsagai]" /> <img src="graemlins/drink.gif" border="0" alt="[cherrsagai]" /> <img src="graemlins/drink.gif" border="0" alt="[cherrsagai]" /> <img src="graemlins/drink.gif" border="0" alt="[cherrsagai]" />