Anyone run a fixed back seat and stock 3-pt belts?
12-10-2007, 12:13 PM
#16
Burning Brakes
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Burke, VA
Posts: 1,096
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
12-10-2007, 03:53 PM
#17
I considered the Scroth 4-pt, but even with the ASM i am still weary of running a harness without the subbelt. Not so much as the fear of slipping under the seat in an accident, but what really gets me is how the lap belt and cam lock ride up to my stomach as i cinch down the shoulder belts. No matter how tight i get the lap belt it always seems to happen. Thats the way it is with my current 6-pt harness if i dont run the lap belt. Does anyone run this type of harness and have this problem?
The other thing about the Scroth 4pts is even though some of the models are DOT compliant, i dont want to invite any reason for the police to hassle me. They do often have the random checkpoints around onramps, offramps, in town. Because even if the belts are DOT compliant and street legal...they can find a handful of other things on the car to ticket, and probably impound the car for. So id rather not give them a reason to do a double take on the car.
Im pretty sure the bolster on the Evo is low enough that i can safely run the 3-pt belt right over it.
The other thing about the Scroth 4pts is even though some of the models are DOT compliant, i dont want to invite any reason for the police to hassle me. They do often have the random checkpoints around onramps, offramps, in town. Because even if the belts are DOT compliant and street legal...they can find a handful of other things on the car to ticket, and probably impound the car for. So id rather not give them a reason to do a double take on the car.
Im pretty sure the bolster on the Evo is low enough that i can safely run the 3-pt belt right over it.
I am in the same boat. I bought Sparco Torinos for my, primarily street car that also sees DEs.
I bought Crow 6 points and put the shoulder straps around a Redline Roll bar. The lap belts are mounted on an Eyebolt for the outside and a Brey Krause mount on the inside. I did not run the Sub belt and this worked out fine for DEs.
I have considered simply running the sub belts out through the bottom of the seat around the bottom cushion as that is where the sub belt spread normally lays.
On the street I use the stock three point and simply remove the lap belt.
Now if I want to run a PCA DE I believe that I will be forced back to the three point as my sat up might not meet the new PCA standards.
My Recommendation for the Schroth is that it can be upgraded to a 6 point if i am not mistaken.
What to do... What to do?
IPSC
P.S. J Silverman, what is a 7 point? harness?
12-10-2007, 04:04 PM
#18
Nordschleife Master
Thread Starter
IPSC, you are absolutely correct. Its always ends up being a compromise. I wanted to go with a Recaro recliner (SRD or Speed) but in my opinion the factory sport seat i have now offers better side support (larger bolsters). Also another reason for wanting fixed seats is the weight savings. A fixed seat hard mounted to the floor can drop roughly 25-30lbs off the car (thats per seat).. the Recaro recliner still weighs in at aprox. 30-35lbs if you take into account the adapter bracket (if needed) and the sliders. The down side of the factory sport seats is they are effective afternoon tide boat anchors at 55lbs each!
Maybe its time to take a step back and rethink how i want to do this. And that basically means taking a recliner back into consideration. I figure i can experiment a little as worse comes to worse i can just resell the seat. Seems there is always someone interested in them. Just a question of findings someone local so i dont have to ship the damn thing!
A 7pt is basically a mutated 6pt that grew an extra sub belt. Basically 3 belts connect to the buckle for the sub belt. So a center crotch strap and the two that go around the inner thigh.
Im just hoping with the Evo seat the bolster will be low enough so i can run the 3pt belt. Its funny, with the Pro2000 i cant even fit in the seat with a ski jacket on. Mind you i am a real slim guy.. 155lbs, 33-34 inch waist (and i like long walks on the beach). So you can get an idea as to how tight a seat this is! not a problem though to switch the seats out in the winter..only takes about 45 minutes...and a hernia from carrying the sport seat up from the basement!
I need to get the damn Turbo on the road so i can just retire this to track use..
Maybe its time to take a step back and rethink how i want to do this. And that basically means taking a recliner back into consideration. I figure i can experiment a little as worse comes to worse i can just resell the seat. Seems there is always someone interested in them. Just a question of findings someone local so i dont have to ship the damn thing!
A 7pt is basically a mutated 6pt that grew an extra sub belt. Basically 3 belts connect to the buckle for the sub belt. So a center crotch strap and the two that go around the inner thigh.
Im just hoping with the Evo seat the bolster will be low enough so i can run the 3pt belt. Its funny, with the Pro2000 i cant even fit in the seat with a ski jacket on. Mind you i am a real slim guy.. 155lbs, 33-34 inch waist (and i like long walks on the beach). So you can get an idea as to how tight a seat this is! not a problem though to switch the seats out in the winter..only takes about 45 minutes...and a hernia from carrying the sport seat up from the basement!
I need to get the damn Turbo on the road so i can just retire this to track use..
12-10-2007, 04:16 PM
#19
Rennlist Member
I did not run the Sub belt and this worked out fine for DEs.
I have considered simply running the sub belts out through the bottom of the seat around the bottom cushion as that is where the sub belt spread normally lays.
Now if I want to run a PCA DE I believe that I will be forced back to the three point as my sat up might not meet the new PCA standards.
I have considered simply running the sub belts out through the bottom of the seat around the bottom cushion as that is where the sub belt spread normally lays.
Now if I want to run a PCA DE I believe that I will be forced back to the three point as my sat up might not meet the new PCA standards.
according to PCA rules you must have equal restraints for both sides. You can run stock 3pt belts on both, or you can run 5pt or more belts as long as the seats have the sub-belt and side bolster holes for the harnesses to pass though-as well as for the shoulder straps. NOW 4 pt seatbelts are allowed but only for harneses made for that particular car such as the BMW schroth harnesses. If your sub belt does not pass through the lower cushion of the seat- and the seat is not made for the belt to pass through it, it will not be allowed. Running the sub around the front of the seat is not acceptable and will not help you in a crash.
12-10-2007, 05:15 PM
#20
I will snap a pic tonight of what my intent is. I can see running the sub belt in front of the seat would be asking for trouble.
Did Corbeau do the sub belt holes custom or do they offer that now?
I am thinking that a decent uhoplstry shop "SHOULD" be able to put sub belt holes in my seat with out tooo much trouble.
The only thing is I read somewhere PCA also requires a fixed back seat? Is that right or internet rumor?
IPSC
Did Corbeau do the sub belt holes custom or do they offer that now?
I am thinking that a decent uhoplstry shop "SHOULD" be able to put sub belt holes in my seat with out tooo much trouble.
The only thing is I read somewhere PCA also requires a fixed back seat? Is that right or internet rumor?
IPSC
12-10-2007, 06:24 PM
#21
Rennlist Member
PCA does not require a fixed back seat- they do require the hole for your sub belt to be installed by the manufacturer- or at least appear that way 
- my corbeaus had the option to have a sub belt installed when i ordered them but truthfully it was just a hole cut into the cushion w/ a plastic insert- the OMP seats i have now are reinforced in that area w/ steel. Seats are required to be equal restraints but only "equal" and not exact- so if you are running a solid back drivers seat w/ five points you could put a reclinable seat on the ps so long as it meets the requirements for the five point harness on that side as well. It is not recommended to run two different types of belt systems at once such as factory and aftermarket overlapping- once you are alone in the car you can do what you want but its not recommended and your instructor should not allow it while they are in the car.
- my corbeaus had the option to have a sub belt installed when i ordered them but truthfully it was just a hole cut into the cushion w/ a plastic insert- the OMP seats i have now are reinforced in that area w/ steel. Seats are required to be equal restraints but only "equal" and not exact- so if you are running a solid back drivers seat w/ five points you could put a reclinable seat on the ps so long as it meets the requirements for the five point harness on that side as well. It is not recommended to run two different types of belt systems at once such as factory and aftermarket overlapping- once you are alone in the car you can do what you want but its not recommended and your instructor should not allow it while they are in the car.
12-10-2007, 07:00 PM
#22
Advanced
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Damascus, MD
Posts: 54
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Six point belts are also intended to go through the sub belt holes. Some seats have two opposing holes for the individual belts, or you can pass them through the single hole for a 5 point. Personally I wouldnt feel comfortable with the sub belts mounted like you describe.
Here is a pic of what a 6 point seat looks like.
Here is a pic of what a 6 point seat looks like.
What kind of seats are those? When I was putting my seats in (Sparco Pro2000), it seemed to me most harnesses were six point, but most seats were really for five point. I installed the six point harness with the sub straps going through the single hole, but it doesn't seem to be any better than a five point. Some say the six point is more friendly to the "boys". I think my set up just lines things up so each "boy" gets it's individual strap lined up and ready to crush.
12-10-2007, 07:50 PM
#23
Burning Brakes
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Burke, VA
Posts: 1,096
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The seats are made by Ultrashield. They are aluminum bucket seats. The drivers seat is a road race seat, the passenger side is the rally seat (less bolstering and the single sub belt hole) I had the drivers seat custom made for an extra $100.
12-10-2007, 09:54 PM
#24
What they mean is they want the same belts for the driver and passenger. What i was going to do if i had more $, was get a reclinable drivers seat and a fixed back passengers seat, which my PCA region said was ok but the Sparco Sprint V's are comfy enough for me for a DD.
12-11-2007, 12:57 AM
#25
This is what I am thinking, route the sub belt up around the sides of the cushion.
Sorry it is hard to see, red straps on a red seat and all.
I think I will post this over in the Racing & DE forum as well and see what the Rennlist hive-mind thinks...
Sorry it is hard to see, red straps on a red seat and all.
I think I will post this over in the Racing & DE forum as well and see what the Rennlist hive-mind thinks...
12-11-2007, 10:56 AM
#26
Nordschleife Master
Thread Starter
The 6pt belt on my 951 is routed the same way with a pair of Momo RS-GT's (recliners). Its been used in plenty of MetroNY PCA DE's this way and has never been an issue. Admitantly i first saw them routed this way and couldnt imagine it being correct.
12-11-2007, 02:53 PM
#27
Drifting
I've got the Sparco Pro2000's and run a 5 point on the track... but the stock 3 point on the road. I just run the 3 point over the bolster (on both sides), and it seems to work fine. It's a LITTLE loose on the lap belt (due to the bolster issue you're forseeing)... but seems acceptable to me.
12-15-2007, 01:57 PM
#29
Drifting
On the door-side... yes, that wouldn't be a problem (but you would actually remove the lower bolt). For the inboard side... no... the belt buckle just doesn't have the right bend in it to do that... and even if you did... the seat's not wide enough for the buckle to fit between you and the seat.
