R12 - anyone still use it?
10-11-2007, 11:59 PM
#5
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I bought a 30lb cylinder of R12 when I was in the parts business, just as the price started to rise due to epa taxes/surcharges and reduction in production as R134a was introduced. Used to sell them at $30, bought mine at $45. I've heard from some old customers that if they can find it now, it's over $600.
My understanding is that, while R134a retrofits are almost the only option these days, doing such a retrofit on cars originally equipped with R12 results in a much less efficient and effective system. The problem is that most components are left in place, changing only a few parts, seals, oil, and refrigerant. This results in a compromised system (as far as effectiveness).
I changed my compressor (and drier) a couple years ago. Only compressor I could get was a rebuilt (Hitachi) set up for R134a. Talked to tech help at Hitachi. Told me that the only difference between the R12 version (not available) and the R134a version is the oil used. Just dumped out the oil from the new (rebuilt) compressor and added the same amount of the correct oil for R12. It's been working great.
My understanding is that, while R134a retrofits are almost the only option these days, doing such a retrofit on cars originally equipped with R12 results in a much less efficient and effective system. The problem is that most components are left in place, changing only a few parts, seals, oil, and refrigerant. This results in a compromised system (as far as effectiveness).
I changed my compressor (and drier) a couple years ago. Only compressor I could get was a rebuilt (Hitachi) set up for R134a. Talked to tech help at Hitachi. Told me that the only difference between the R12 version (not available) and the R134a version is the oil used. Just dumped out the oil from the new (rebuilt) compressor and added the same amount of the correct oil for R12. It's been working great.
10-12-2007, 12:08 AM
#6
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i usually track down some r12 to do my "old" cars- but just as an expiriment i charged my car w/ some 134a w/ oil in the can combined- when it was 100 here for three weeks straight, mine was blowing cold air before i got to the end of my block. Does better than my truck!
10-12-2007, 12:37 AM
#7
Hey Man
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I get my R-12 from Mexico. DuPont still makes it down there and a friend picks me up a case of it from a Ford dealership for about $5-6/ can. Using a side tap clamp I can add what I need and store the partial can. R-12 is the most efficient and actually works when you get stuck in traffic with low air-flow over the condenser. I've measured 38 deg. at the vents on 95+ days so it works well for me.
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10-12-2007, 12:40 AM
#8
Three Wheelin'
My buddies have smuggled small cans of R12 over the border coming back from Mexico. Maybe I'll take the 951 on a road trip to TJ and fill up while I'm there. Although 134a really isn't that horrible of a substitute.
10-13-2007, 02:07 PM
#13
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WIDELY available here...........same goes for R134a
R-12 is cheaper, i filled the 951 (950grams) for under $40, which included venting the old freon and a check-up.
R-12 is cheaper, i filled the 951 (950grams) for under $40, which included venting the old freon and a check-up.
10-15-2007, 03:10 PM
#15
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R12 here...in fact, just had my system recharged with it. Like a few of the other guys, I bought a few of the 30lb. bottles years back when I worked at Advance Auto Parts (20% discount rules) and have held onto it. My '88 with R12 is much cooler than my '83 was with R134a.