Engine Comparisons - 20 years on
#17
Race Director
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Truth be told I wasnt real impressed with the S2K for the first month or so I had it...thought I made a bad choice. Oh how wrong I was, it keeps getting better and better...one must truly wring it out and drive it for awhile to get used to it.
#20
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the 944 turbo was the contender for corvette and mustang,not the n/a 944, that was up against the crx and the rx-7.Even so I love my 86 944 turbo but my wifes 98 es300 with 130,000 miles and non turbo can match it.
#21
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2000 Toyota celica GTS engine specs
Engine Configuration I
Cylinders 4
Aspiration/Induction Normal
Displacement 1794.00 cc | 109.5 cu in. | 1.8 L.
Valves 16 valves.
4 valves per cylinder.
Valvetrain DOHC
Horsepower 180.00 BHP (132.5 KW) @ 7600.00 RPM
Torque 133.00 Ft-Lbs (180.3 NM) @ 6800.00 RPM
HP to Weight Ratio 13.9 LB / HP
HP / Liter 100.0 BHP / Liter
Bore 3.23 in | 82 mm.
Stroke 3.36 in | 85.3 mm.
Engine Configuration I
Cylinders 4
Aspiration/Induction Normal
Displacement 1794.00 cc | 109.5 cu in. | 1.8 L.
Valves 16 valves.
4 valves per cylinder.
Valvetrain DOHC
Horsepower 180.00 BHP (132.5 KW) @ 7600.00 RPM
Torque 133.00 Ft-Lbs (180.3 NM) @ 6800.00 RPM
HP to Weight Ratio 13.9 LB / HP
HP / Liter 100.0 BHP / Liter
Bore 3.23 in | 82 mm.
Stroke 3.36 in | 85.3 mm.
#22
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$ bangers have come along way, Varaiable valve timing on both cams, and varaiable displacment intakes, along with lighter stronger materials, Better air metering and ECU's make them all that much better.
Now it seems they can match the 944's performance with about 1.8L-2.0L NA
Now it seems they can match the 944's performance with about 1.8L-2.0L NA
#23
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My brother's '01 Celica GTS (1.8L) is a tie for my 6 Cyl Camry SE quad cam up to about redline 3rd gear, at which point the Yamaha part of his engine kicks in (lift) and he takes off like a shot of nos. Thing is sick. It def. beats my 944 but for 7 grand I would've bought a 951.
#25
Rennlist Member
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We had the 944/vette discussion a few months ago; too lazy to look it up myself. ![Smilie](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
'83 944 > '82 Vette (there was no '83 vette)
'84 vette > '84 944... at least in torque/HP
From what I've read, in racing, it was pretty much dependent on the skill of the driver to take advantage of their car's strengths and the race track - vettes had the advantage accelerating in the straights and the 944 could go into corners faster and carry speed out of it.
But... '84+ vettes look bland; the 944 looks timeless. And we don't buy 944s out of the need to... compensate
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'83 944 > '82 Vette (there was no '83 vette)
'84 vette > '84 944... at least in torque/HP
From what I've read, in racing, it was pretty much dependent on the skill of the driver to take advantage of their car's strengths and the race track - vettes had the advantage accelerating in the straights and the 944 could go into corners faster and carry speed out of it.
But... '84+ vettes look bland; the 944 looks timeless. And we don't buy 944s out of the need to... compensate
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#26
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Since we talk about 4 cylinder N/A cars why dont we recall BMW and Mercedes of the late 80's early 90's when the DTM was on its peak....
BMW M3 4 cylinder 2300cc 215hp
Mercedes Benz 190E 2.3-16V(185hp if my memory is right) and 2.5-16V (205hp without cat and 195hp with cat. converter
and not to mention the EVO2 version of both Brands
BMW M3 2500cc 4cyl 245hp and Mercedes 190E 2.5-16V EVOII 235hp
great cars.....
![](http://l.yimg.com/www.flickr.com/images/spaceball.gif)
![](http://www.benz-web.com/aisya/w201_070606c.jpg)
![](http://farm1.static.flickr.com/187/429403538_94b983c9d4_b.jpg)
( SOrry the figures are not 100% acurate or complete with torque figuers etc, but i wrote them down as i remember them)
BMW M3 4 cylinder 2300cc 215hp
Mercedes Benz 190E 2.3-16V(185hp if my memory is right) and 2.5-16V (205hp without cat and 195hp with cat. converter
and not to mention the EVO2 version of both Brands
BMW M3 2500cc 4cyl 245hp and Mercedes 190E 2.5-16V EVOII 235hp
great cars.....
![](http://l.yimg.com/www.flickr.com/images/spaceball.gif)
![](http://www.benz-web.com/aisya/w201_070606c.jpg)
![](http://farm1.static.flickr.com/187/429403538_94b983c9d4_b.jpg)
( SOrry the figures are not 100% acurate or complete with torque figuers etc, but i wrote them down as i remember them)
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#27
Drifting
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STi dosent belong in this comparison because its turbocharged.
I dont think there are many other 4-cylinder production engines that match the torque spread of the 3.0L 968 engine..
3.0L DOHC with Variocam
236hp at 6200rpm
225ft-lbs at 4200rpm
11.0:1 compression ratio
78.7hp per liter
Then again, not many production 4-cylinder engines match the 3.0L displacement either!
I dont think there are many other 4-cylinder production engines that match the torque spread of the 3.0L 968 engine..
3.0L DOHC with Variocam
236hp at 6200rpm
225ft-lbs at 4200rpm
11.0:1 compression ratio
78.7hp per liter
Then again, not many production 4-cylinder engines match the 3.0L displacement either!
So we have:
Code:
Car: 944 | 944S | 951 |**| 2.5i | WRX | STI Price New (year): $25k | $27k | $30k |**| $18k | $26k | $34k Displacement: 2.5L | 2.5L | 2.5L |**| 2.5L | 2.5L | 2.5L Configuration: I4 | I4 | I4 |**| H4 | H4 | H4 Valves: 8v | 16v | 8v |**| 16v | 16v | 16v Turbo: n/a | n/a | yes |**| n/a | yes | yes Power: 158hp| 188hp| 217hp|**| 173hp| 224hp| 300hp Torque (ft-lbs): 140 | 170 | 243 |**| 166 | 226 | 290 Torque (@RPMS): 3000 | 4300 | 3500 |**| 4400 | 3600 | 4400
#28
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Sometime around the late 60s the DFV engine that was built for Colin Chapman for Lotus F1 racing put out about 400hp in a 3 l. engine, well over 2hp per cu. in.
Current F1 cars produce about 750 hp in a 2.4 l. engine (at around 20,000 rpm) which is about 5 hp / cu. in.
F1 motors were and still are designed to last for a couple of weekends of racing, at most.
Needless to say, this is state of the art in engine building.
Practically speaking, somewhere around 1 hp / cu. in. is pretty good for a road driven normally aspirated engine with a single camshaft, fixed valve timing, and fixed intake. Especially for an 80s era sports car with an engine that normally lasts at least 100, 000 miles without a rebuild. Improvements beyond this have been achieved through variable timing, variable intake, along with closer tolerances, allowing higher revs, etc.
With those engineering advances, it seems like somewhere around 1.5 hp / cu. in. (e.g. Boxster) or better (e.g. Honda s2000) is an attainable as well as generally affordable standard for similar cars today.
Current F1 cars produce about 750 hp in a 2.4 l. engine (at around 20,000 rpm) which is about 5 hp / cu. in.
F1 motors were and still are designed to last for a couple of weekends of racing, at most.
Needless to say, this is state of the art in engine building.
Practically speaking, somewhere around 1 hp / cu. in. is pretty good for a road driven normally aspirated engine with a single camshaft, fixed valve timing, and fixed intake. Especially for an 80s era sports car with an engine that normally lasts at least 100, 000 miles without a rebuild. Improvements beyond this have been achieved through variable timing, variable intake, along with closer tolerances, allowing higher revs, etc.
With those engineering advances, it seems like somewhere around 1.5 hp / cu. in. (e.g. Boxster) or better (e.g. Honda s2000) is an attainable as well as generally affordable standard for similar cars today.
#29
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Engines make their peak torque at different RPMs. Gearing also plays a role in determine power to the wheels. In higher revving engines, they produce their maximum torque much higher in the RPM band in order to make use of the higher gearing. You might have to rev them to make power but they are designed to be revved and make decent torque. Just 2-3 k RPMs higher than an engine made to deliver it's torque at a lower RPM.