Ethan

I have not been on Rennlist for months, if not a year. Same questions over and over.

Mamooguy

Can I make a suggestion? Post a summary of this whole issue at the top of the forum. That way users will see it right from the get-go.

blown 944

It is an eaton M90 off of a supercoupe. It is a completely custom intake setup..

If I was a member I would put a couple of links up but ..well you know

If you look on Pelican I have done some extensive reporting on it.

blown 944

Legoland are you sure you want to do that, and can it be supercharged instead? I am at barely over 2k now so that gives me some real $$ to play with. This would be a drag race for me of course. Now if you would want to do a roll on then I guess I could even manage that I am serious BTW

LMK if you are serious , remember I have went low 14 almost 13 at 5200ft with the air measuring 7500 ft . I also had many problems that day (got there late)and got only 2 runs to sort it. The next time up I am pretty much guaranteeing (sp) a low to mid 13 pass.... at this elevation..... It was that far off truthfully.

If it were a real deal I would race down there or you could come up here and see how the 951 responds to the thin air. Not calling you out but, hey you said it and I have the car.

Better yet why don't you run your car at the strip and if I get a better time the next time up I get your car and if you get a better time you can have mine I'm just not sure I like my air handicap I would do it anyway.




I can always use another 951 to play with You would like My 944 it's not too bad either.... it could be a fun wager

This is all in good fun but I am down for it. I used to love these type of things in my youth. Come on lets make it happen

Sid

Legoland951

Sid, If you are serious about racing for pinks, we can run a set a budget and run a series of different races (drag, road, and enduro). I got about 10 944s so if I get one more or less it won't make a whole lot of difference to me

If you bought your car and supercharge it for $2000 including all the custom fabrication, then you have something no one else can duplicate since most running 944s cost $1500 or more. I bough my car as a running car but a non running 944 turbo can be bought for $1500 if you look long enough. I don't run my 951 on the strip but I am sure a simple chip with the stock k26/8 turbo would get me down in the 13s (close to 300 reliable crank horse of a chipped stock turbo S). A bone stock turbo S runs 14.2 with street tires and you can buy that turbo for $100 to $150. Bolt it on any year 951 and you can get the same performance. If I put in my bolt on turbonetics turbo for $450 more, I am sure I can get it down to high to mid 12s for a quite a few runs before the head gasket blows (with about 400 crank not so reliable crank hp since no cometic head gasket is used - which I can install in a morning for $100 in parts). I would also like to see how many hard launches with drag slicks the n/a tranny can handle as I have replace over 20 transmissions for customers' cars not able to handle 143 hp due to ring and pinion failure, stripped gears, to broken synchros. Maybe we will do just 30 hard launches and see what happens. I would also like to invite you to Willow Springs big track for a 2.5 mile road course for a 6 hour enduro (I think its about 105 degrees out there right now) to see if the n/a tranny with no trans cooler and smaller radiator will hold up especially when its not intercooled and there is no external oil cooler for the n/a. Rick White raced his supercharged 924S back 15 years ago and ran it on the track quite extensively. He was and probably is one of the best road racer of a 944 around. After a few years, he gave up on the supercharger and bought himself a turbo. I met Rick more than 15 years ago through a mutual friend Steve Roussakov (who built the Steve R motors which brought a bit of controversy in the 944 spec world).

I am not trying to armchair race. I have drag raced and road raced motorcycles and many different makes of cars. I am not against innovation or fabrication. However, doing something the hard way is not what I recommend to people. For a drag car, I wouldn't even waste my time with a Porsche drivetrain. This is why I am building a 700hp n/a chevy small block 2400 pound 944 using a Ford rear end and my goal is to yank the front end off the ground with the 14 inch wide drag slicks and do low 11s or less at the strip. I have the complete engine and the TH350 built tranny with reverse manual valve body but no trans brake. The car is painted and gutted already awaiting a NHRA certified cage to be welded in certified for 8.50 since the blower will go in once the car is setup properly to get about 1100 hp. I am by no means discouraging experimenting with something new. However this subject has been beaten to death and it just does not make sense. I, along with everyone else who has owned a n/a, thought about and researched turboing an n/a. I have indicated in the last thread on this subject that I helped Danno of Guru Racing install the 9.5 compression engine in his 951 in my garage for 3 weeks (which almost cost my marriage because I had an unexpected roommate for 3 weeks). He was experimenting with making and selling the n/a turbo kit but I ended buying his 86 turbo from him due to a second cracked engine. All I am trying to do is share what I have learned over the past decade working on these cars from bumper to bumper.

blown 944

legoland i had typed out aver long response and ended up somehow hittin a key and deleting it (im holding 2 month old baby .. brothers kid)


the jist of it was this

you have a lot experience i respect that

i have a lot of experience building nitro coupes and fast stret cars, last street car was running mid 8's

i just sold the 421sb out of it 2 weeks ago

personally i dont think the na car is as bad of plaltform as mentioned so often for boosting

yes you can get a deal on a 951 I have one myself

however I just don't think that should totally eliminate the na for performance

I was thinking that you could run your car as it is and I run mine (of course you could put a big turbo on and such that is not what I was thinking). I was also thinking a drag race or roll on race. I am fully aware of the na shortcomings in any endurance situations.

I don't think anyone could duplicate what I've done very easily heres what it is as of now total money spent

500 auction car
250 pump and belts
500 tires
850 blower injectors rrfpr fab intake and tubing
200 paint

I have just purchased

400 turbo open trans
150 ebay intercooler
total 2850

As I see it I have fully accoplished proving the na as a good platform it is a fully capable low 14 sec car up here (honestly when the meth injection works it is much faster, just wasn't working when I took it up) so I really don't have a problem saying it is a 13 sec car at 5200ft (air measures 7500 usually)

If I race a stock (10-12 psi) 951 up here it is a joke honestly in A QUARTER SITUATION that is what I was getting at really.

So I guess if you agree to run your car down there in a stock type configuration I would be willing to go for it. I too have a couple 44s and a 951 myself so losing one is not that big of a deal
to recap


I am in no way calling you out personally. I just think the na cars can be put to some abuse just expect to have to at least put a good trans in them. For under 4000 one can have a fairly good running 944. When supercharged there is absolutely no lag hence my 60' in comparison to built 951's IN a drag race this counts a great deal as I'm sure you know and most races (playfull runs) encountered in daily life are from stoplight to light in my experience.


So the question remains "Is the na car worth boosting?" Obviously this convo is well played out. Seeing the end results of every thread just doesn't seem to agree with me.

well I guess it's a matter of personal opinion, but I have a fun little car sitting in the garage right next to his big brother (the 951) that says YES to me everytime I take it out I have had it running pretty strong for a couple years now.

Truth be told the 944 is actually more fun around town b/c it is much lighter and can be tossed around very easily. Not to mention the no lag of 10-12 psi off idle.

In the end I have 2 differnt cars for differnet purposes (3 actuallyas I aslo have a driver 87 na).

I think if people can not be persuaded so easily they would also see that it can be done and if they have a very nice 44 then they may be very happy

So you wanna race at 12 psi max Or did the car come with a big turbo as is for 3500?

Legoland951

I just think properly turboing an n/a is beyond the ability of most people on this board and definitely not cost effectively. This is why 99 percent of people who starts it never finishs it. We all thought about doing it, some started it, but the response is indicative of how many are successful in the end.

Somehow, this turned into a debate of a supercharged drag race prepped 944, which I believe most people who own 944s will never see the tree at a drag strip.

I too get auction cars but that's not what is available to most people. In the over 100 944s I have owned personally, I have bought a slight engine burnt 951 for $700 with a salvage title and a running 83 with current registration for $200 which I drove home. Again, thats not available to most people and I wouldn't quote that as a basis for someone new to the board as it will get them into trouble. A simple chipped turbo with a k26/8 can develop 20+ psi of boost and spin tire through a good part of the tall second gear without any nitrous or other help. I agree the stock 951 is hard to launch without burning the clutch and slow as a dog compared to any early 70s camaro. We both been to the drag strip to see what the 944 can do but I am pretty sure very few people have tried to embarrass themselves like that on the strip as we have.

Ultimately, it doesn't matter the guy building my drag motor can fit a 2500 hp big block in my 944 that I will have to spend $10k to stretch and strengthen the chassis so I can kick *** without getting killed but thats not the point. The main point and pretty much the only point I am making is, what will take a normal person of normal wrenching ability (people who have to ask how to turbo a n/a) about 2.5 to 5k to buy a good running car and turbo charge it (another 1.5 to 2k) to get less of a car than a simple chipped turbo which can be bought for 3.5 to 5k without any frankenstein conversion which does not equate when they go sell the car later.

I am not eliminating the n/a for the performance. I am eliminating the n/a for practical cost effective performance (time and $ wise), which I think you will agree with. Anyone with the skillset to do the conversion properly has a high opportunity cost of their time especially when you compare that to simply installing a chip in a DME/KLR.

blown 944

I thi8nk we speak the same laguage

I just prefer not to be grouped into the it can't be done crowd


I think when you see my end result of my eforts it may sway your thinking just a little bit. The 44 is going through a slight adjustment in the next few months that may have a few payng attention

I hint it out this way it will see a minimum of 25 psi and have at least 15psi before 3000 rpm

I'll be posting some info on it over on pelican when I get well into it

I do agre that in the end it is not a great ROI but I never expect them to be Hell I had over 150k into my last car and got a total of 55k back out of it

I am truly enjoying fooling with this little ride as it is inexpensive and proving to be an easy fix

I've "been there done that" so many times witht the drag stuff that just accomplishng this build is as fun as any other to me.

Have fun and keep an eye out on dragtimes do com I will keep posting soem times and vids on it as things move along. Just don't be tto surprised when the little 44 is on top of the 951 (mine) on a regular basis.

have a good day
Sid