yellowline

So new 997s are junk because the long blocks alone are worth 15% of the whole car? Looking at 996 depreciation, I don't think any water-cooled 911 is investment grade.

Tom R.

Whatever! I'm not getting into a pissin contest.

The point was made that people should save the breed of 944s. I pointed out why I don't think 944s are a breed worth saving. I stand by what I said earlier.

My 944 and most people on this boards 944s are junk because the cost to make them an investment grade "collectible" is more than the car will be worth.

Draw your own conclusions about any other make or model. The head on the NA I just sold is worth about 30% of what I sold the car for.

yellowline

No competition here, your definition of junk just intrigued me.

Tom R.

Choose another word. Here are some suggestions:
worthless,
below investment grade,
not worthy of trying to make a number 1,

Add a few. Junk is just the most succint.

82-T/A

Why is it that you feel that in order for a car to be considered a "collectible", it must be related in terms of an investment?

tifosiman

This thread is a hoot.

I like 944's a lot, they are great to drive. I have put plenty of blood, money, and sweat into my car. I know I would never get 1/3 of what I have in it if I was pressed into selling it. Would I do anything different? Hell no. Would I have any problem if things got tough and I realized that I had to piecemail my car out in order to get the most $$ out of it? Hell no. If someone is so wrapped up into "saving the breed", they can pay me my asking price for my 85.5 if times get tough for me again and I have to liquidate some toys.

Tom R.

Fred G. Sanford was a collector. Was the stuff he "collected" considered "collectible"?

NO! He was a "Junk Dealer", and by definition collected junk.

Something "collectible" usually has some sort of monetary value.

If something has no monetary value, it is usually considered "junk".

We used to get parts from "junkyards". But the stigma of somoene buying "junk" turned a lot of people off so the name was chaged to "salvage yards".

Perhaps I should have used "not worth salvaging" instead of junk.

What is your definition of a "collectible"? I have a basement full of "collectibles". Perhaps you would like me to transfer some of my collection to where you store your collection. Of course I would appreciate you transferring some of your collection of dead presidents to where I store my collection of dead presidents.

Tom R.

IM TIRED OF THESE LIBERAL TIRE HUGGING HIPPIE FREAKS TELLING ME I HAVE TO SAVE THE BREED! LET EM GO THE WAY OF THE DODO BIRD.

tifosiman

I do find it rather amusing that 944 owners tend to have the most number of people who want to "save the breed", yet when you look at most every 944 driving on the road they are a dirty shatbox that is ill-taken care of and full of 5 months of McBurgerBell wrappers and cigarette butts. How is that? How many shatbox 911's do you see driving on the road? Most every Porsche car show I have been too has a decent share of 944's in attendance but they all look like crap with the exception of a couple.

Tom R.

First off, I resemble that remark.

My 68 Firebird had a primed fender for a few years, and was my driver. For years it sat in my grandmothers garage without a rear quarter. It was JUNK!! In fact it was almost junked when I was in school, living in the city, and she died. But for the verbal bequest she made to me I would have had no choice but to junk it in the mid 80s when her beneficiaries sold the house.

Many people have dreams. Too bad most of those dreams end up as cars with parts all over the place, and no hope of ever being finished.

Many of the save the breed preachers of today will be the sellers of unfinished "projects" tomorrow. In the meantime, they are the proud owners of a "dirty shatbox".

There are not too many running 20 year old 911s selling for a tenth of their original msrp. Hence, an old 911 is not "JUNK" because you can probably get most of the money you put into it out of it.

tifosiman

Exactly.

My car is certainly no pristine garage queen, and gets driven hard when I take it out. But you can tell I have pride in it and keep it up.

Pcar944

The words "collectible" and "investment" really don't apply to 944's, if they ever do get to that point they certainly aren't there yet. And seeing as how the word "Junk" is being used here only in relation to "collectible" and "investment", it too has no place here because there is obviously quality in the design, engineering and function.

-mike
__________________________
1986 944 Guards Red
1988 944 Dark Blue

Tom R.

There is quality in the the design of a 53 corvette, there is quality in the design of a Vega too.

The Pacer has a lot of quality in the design engineering and fucntion too. Just look at the passenger door and large greenhouse. very innovative.

Yet, the Vega and Pacer are worthless, and from an investment perspective JUNK. The 53 vette - while considered engineering JUNK is worth money.

Nobody is crazy enough to take a rusted out Vega or Pacer and restore it - unless there is an emotional attachment to that exact vehicle. On the other hand there are flocks waiting to find that 53 Corvette in a barn in need of a total restoration.

The best 944 falls more into the category of the Vega than the Vette. If the Vega is JUNK, what is the 944?

The typical 944 is not worth the sum of the new parts put in. Therefore, it can be concluded that all 944s should be JUNKED rather than fixed up to "save the breed".

However, it may be fiscally sound to take a worthless piece of junk - like a running 944 and investing $$ to make it run well and look a bit better, then driving it either as a utility or a toy. The use of the car may equal the $$ invested. Yet, after the new parts wear out, one is left again with a worthless piece of junk.

Insert Pacer or Vega or Chevette, or 2000 Grand Am the old lady down the road offers you for next to nothing where it says 944 and the statement is equally true!

Then it is the task of the next caretaker to invest $$ and get their utils out of the car.

So, in summary, I disagree with your statement that the term JUNK does not apply to 944s.

potent951turbo

Tom R.- Saying that we are "LIBERAL" is a joke, I am far from being one. I don't understand why you are here if you feel so adamant that 944's are "JUNK". Nothing has to be an "investment" in order to be a collectible. Some people collect baseball cards, bottle caps, and stamps, and to them they are a "collectible". A collectible or classic is in the eye of the beholder, it doesn't have to be classified as "JUNK" because it doesn't hold a particular value. A collectible is valuable to that person no matter the "investment quality." According to what you have said, any new 997 or BMW M3 is "JUNK" because its not worth what you paid as soon as you drive it off the lot. This is a forum of enthusiasts, people who are proud of their cars and want to learn from others. I think you have shown disrespect to this entire community of 944 owners in saying "My 944 and most people on this boards 944s are junk because the cost to make them an investment grade "collectible" is more than the car will be worth." My car sir, is certainly far from qualifying as "JUNK" because you feel its not "investment quality" and therefore should be destroyed.

Tom R.

Some days you just cant win!!

According to what I said, anyone that puts $$ into a 944 probably wont be able to get it back if they decide to sell the car.

99.99% of the population would agree that a collection of WORTHLESS bottle caps, or WORTHLESS stamps, or WORTHLESS cars (or a collection of WORTHLESS car parts - like many of the parts offered here before getting tossed) is a collection of JUNK.

99.99% of the population would agree that a collection of ANYTHING OF MONETARY VALUE is not a collection of JUNK.

Think about it. How much have you put into your 944? How much could you sell it for? ....