82-T/A

Hey guys,

I'm completely going through my 84 Porsche 94 from top to bottom, replacing everything that's worn or needs servicing. I'd like to replace the timing belt, but I'm nervous doing it myself. I was wondering that I could expect to pay if I had a shop do it? I'd probably buy the belt myself, but being that the 2.5 is an interference motor, I'd HATE to think that I would accidentally destroy the motor by accidentally putting the belt 1 tooth off.

How difficult is it to change yourself? I've rebuilt MANY motors, but this would be the first motor I've ever worked on that had a belt (and not gears or a chain). Can I simply just swap out the belt, and then manually turn the motor to see if there are any clearance issues?

Any recommendations? And where / what belt should I buy? I know I need special tools, how expensive are they?


Thanks!!!


Todd,
2006 Pontiac Solstice
2002 Ford Crown Victoria LX
1987 Pontiac Fiero SE / V6
1984 Porsche 944
1981 Pontiac TransAm WS6
1973 Volkswagen Type-2 Transporter

EdC

Procedure is described in Clark's Garage Shop Manual. http://www.clarks-garage.com/

For parts check out 944online and Paragon. Get URLs from Rennline Sponsers above.

Tools at http://www.arnnworx.com/ ALSO check out his 944 Projects link.

Yummybud924

you can get the tools from arnnworx.com

flywheel lock, so that the crank does not move and so that you can remove the crank gear. you'll also need a pin spanner to remove the balance shaft gears.

you can get these tools from arnnworx.com

I would read and follow the clarks garage instructions.

you will obviously need a tool set with metric wrenches/ torque wrenches (one inch pound and one foot pound that goes up to 155 pounds to tighten the crank bolt, if you replace the oil seals and water pump).

it's likely that you also need to replace teh oil seals / water pump. The water pump requires some more work. One thing to be careful about is that the water pump bolts are often frozen and can easily break in the block and then you'll need to drill them out and fix the threads.

if this is your first time doing it , it's pretty time consuming but not really "hard", you might get stuck with a frozen bolt so you'll need lots of penetrating oil to spray on all the bolts.

coolant needs to be drained, the fan assembly needs to be removed, engine set to tdc, starter removed, flywheel lock installed. and then all the belts need to be removed to replace the timing belt.

parts, you will need a roller kit/ timing belt, balance belt, probably water pump, water pump gasket, water pump bolts, most likely oil seals if they have not been replaced, this can also include the balance shaft bearing that the seals go over and the crankshaft drive sleeve if they have a groove on them.

other possilble things you may consider replacing are the camshaft and crankshaft gears, sometimes they are really worn out and have sharp edges and the protective layer has worn off. I replaced mine but most people don't.

paragon is a good place to get your parts from.

water pump cost depends on if you get a used or new pump. I'm not sure if one is better than the other.

the hardest part of all this is setting the proper tension on the timing belt and balance belt. Without the expensive porsche belt tension tool it's hard to tell. However you can just set it by feel and take it to a shop to adjust the tension.

oh and read the online instructions and look at the diagrams of the belt system and everything should become pretty clear.

it's really not that difficult but need to take your time so you don't screw something up.

Yummybud924

oh and if you don't need to replace the water pump or oil seals, then just the belt and rollers are pretty easy to do, you just need to set the proper tension.

Mighty Shilling

DO THE ROLLERS! didja see my thread on that?

82-T/A

Thanks guys, I appreciate the advice. If I get cold feet and decide to let a Dealer do it, what can I expect to pay?

They have some decent tools on that site.

Thanks!!!

knfeparty

local shop (non-dealer) did tbelt with rollers and rebuilt water pump for ~$1000

Once I found out 944online.com had kits with everything and a new pump for <$600, I wish I had done it myself. I mean, with the tools from arnnworx (or however it is spelled) it's gonna be a lot even doing it yourself, but you'll save lots of money the next time you do it!

Yummybud924

yeah the first time you do it, you won't really safe much money if at all, because of buying the required tools etc. you'll also have to pay to get it tensioned also.

Mighty Shilling

I was quoted $1600 at the dealer for water pump, rollers, and belts...

that's on the turbo... I think it's $1400 for an NA...

Trucho-951

Todd, do yourself a favor and pay someone else to do it for you, be it the dealer, or some competent Porsche mechanic, believe me, those guys will earn their money on this job. It is a royal pain in the azz! I just finished doing a complete front engine re-seal job on my '86 951. Changing only the belts would not be too bad, but if you have to do the seals, man, are you in for a treat!

I had to use a 36 inch breaker bar, yes, three foot long breaker bar, in order to remove the crank bolt, that bolt is not only is torqued on real good, but with age and all the heat cycles it has endured it's practically welded on. There were so many other set backs, so I'm not going to bore you with all the details (but why in the world would Porsche decice to make the power steering bracket part of the lower counter balance seal casing???, And why won't they sell these seal and roller kits that include the crankshaft O-ring, and oil pump sleeve, or woodruff key's that they know darn well will mostly likely need to be replace (beacause they are easy to destroy upon removal if they are really stuck). Anyway, unless you like getting dirty and grimmy and spending hours of knuckle busting tedious work, don't say you have not been warned.

But if you are still inclined on tackling this job yourself, have someone that has done it before handy nearby to consult as having these special tools folks are talking about is only half the battle.

For me, even though I kinda enjoy getting dirty, this job was not pleasant, but now that I've done it once, I'm sure next time around it will be a lot easier. Good Luck.

crooster

Guess this depends on your perspective - I am midway thru my front end reseal and timing belt job, along with lifter replacement and cam tower reseal - I'm not finding it too bad. My crank bolt wasn't too bad to get off. My rear hub bolt when replacing the rear wheel bearing - now that was another matter.

Mike C.

"if you like getting dirty and grimmy and spending hours of knuckle busting tedious work, don't say you have not been warned."

Isn't that half the fun?

PeteL

I always tell people about owning the 944. If you expect it to run perfectly, and never need attention, you are wrong. From my perspective, if you can't work on these things you better have the money to pay and pay and pay someone to do the work.
For the belts/waterpump seals, you are paying someone over 1200 bucks to install about 165 in parts. It is not rocket science. But really believe at some point you have to do the work yourself, unless you have one of those incredibly rare, perfectly pristine examples of the 944 line. But the bulk of our cars are now in the 3000-5000 range in value and I can't see spending 25% of the vehicles value for routine maintenance.
Maintaining the car myself is 63% the fun of owning the thing. It really isn't that hard, and there are listers everywhere willing to help.

Trucho-951

I guess I got frustrated with the project because I wanted to be done with it already, in retrospect I should have included in my budget plenty of patience and time. Oh, and of course...lots of beer

alxdgr8

The first thing I did when I bought my car was the waterpump and belts. I had never even seen a 944 engine before and I did it in two days with the help of clark's garage. One day to take the old stuff off and one day to put the new stuff on. It's not too bad, just make sure to set TDC. I used a sharpie to put a mark on the cam gear to make sure i had the exact tooth. I didn't even use a flywheel lock, just slid the belt behind the crank pulley, not too hard.