dmoffitt

there's a great saying, you can have fast / easy / cheap. pick any 1 (or 2 if you are REALLY lucky).

while I don't have quite the same feelings on MS as MPD47, I can say this, Chris White's support on the TEC3 / 3R is second to none, and it really is an incredible product. I've used quite a few products, both in my own cars and on several other people's projets and I'll say this:

MS is great for an aftermarket-boosted 1980s BMW e30 that, when it blows up, will only cost you 2-250 to get a new running long block. It runs GREAT on my buddy's SRT-4 (replica from a Stratus block) swapped 1st gen Neon, but then again that is a straight-line-only second car PROJECT.

For the money you save, ask yourself this: Is it really money saved if you have to miss a track day or two (figuring wasted gas, transport, hotel, inspection, prep) versus something that might be a simple glitch with the Electromotive that you have both a company and a number of highly skilled people (like Chris) able to help you? I know what MY choice was.

Raceboy

Sry, most of the failures are NOT due to ECU, but due to poor wiring, especially ground wiring. People tend to underestimate the importance of it and the result is minor anomalies at least or engine failures in worst case.

If you know anything about ECUs, then you know that loadsite count is often overrated, it's more important to have decent cpu that can iterpolate between loadsites than on that has thouseands of loadsites but can't interpolate between them Unfortunately there's many such ECU's.

MS can cope with turbocharged engine without problems, actually better than many mid-cost aftermarket standalones. I'm saying this based on my experience and knowledge, not just based on knowledge. Having installed few (5-6) different ECUs, I know the difference in tuning and results.

I agree, if one isn't familiar with engine management, stick with product that is ready to go and have someone calibrated it. But if one have knowledge and time, why pay that extra money?

theedge

While MS may not be utterly perfect, no electronic product is. Yes there has been engine damage due to MS failures, but as with everything everyone tends to hear about the problems. The engines that have been damaged were running earlier versions of MS anyway, and those circuit boards are no longer sold to the public so thats a moot point. Newer versions have much better hardware safeguards built in.

On the resolution front that has been taken care of for those that need it. All MS firmwares use interpolation, so dont bring up the 12x12 fuel and spark table issues as that is moot for most setups. For those that need higher fuel injection resolution, there is a firmware version known as MSExtra-Hires, which provides 0.001MS injection resolution. Lots of people running that. The only thing that you loose with that firmware version is software PWM of low impedance fuel injectors.... But there is an add on circuit board that does hardware PWM control, so as far as I know its a totally moot point. I eventually want to run the Hires code and the hardware PWM stuff for my 951.

On the support front.... Yes I agree MS isnt for absolutely everyone out there, but theres far from a total lack of support for it. I have only had to go to other people for a few questions, and I think all of those came down to simple setting/wiring screw ups on my part and not hardware problems. All the hardware problems were ultimately caused by bad software settings (overly long spark dwell settings which caused the coil pack drivers to burn out).

One the price front, I have a standalone that does boost control, traction control, water injection, wasted spark, knock control, etc etc etc for a few hundred dollars. Id have to miss a lot of track days to make up the difference between my MS and say an AEM, Wolf, or TEC3. I refuse to count the "time = money" crap either, because when it comes to hobbies and interests my time is free when billed to myself and fellow Rennlisters. No that isnt true for everyone, but on the whole it is for most of us. If all of us were concerned about time = money then none of use would have post counts over 0 because wed all be driving Toyotas or something and not posting on a forum discussing finicky German sports cars.

At the end of the day I see it as follows.... For those that want a plug and play solution there are several great options such as Chris W, LR, or Vitesse. For those that want something hands on, something to learn A LOT from, and a challenge theres MS. I know which ill take, and yes it is MS. I have no problems with people who choose other options, but I do stand by MS.



Note: Excuse any rambling, spelling and grammar errors, I have three pitchers of beer in me and the Cancucks won

DanG

Mike, I think you've got some selective examples there. Any aftermarket management is susceptible to someone who "thinks he knows" what he's doing. I guarantee I could blow up my motor running a Tec3 or Motec. And I guarantee there are plenty of people that have. The difference with those higher dollar systems is that they're typically bought by people with higher levels of experience and knowledge. So of course their success rates will look better. You don't see people slapping motecs on $200 turbobricks. But you will see plenty of pimple-faced first timers using megasquirts. Surprise surprise when the horror stories roll in.

A track 951 motor fits easily within a megasquirt's control capabilities, which exceed the stock Motronic's abilities on most counts.

I'm not interested in convincing everyone on this board to run MS. But it does bother me when the facts get twisted. MS gets a bad rap pretty often, but doesn't necessarily deserve it. I guess the proof will be in the pudding.

dmoffitt

driving to the grocery store exceeds stock Motronic

ckuhtz

So, we're back to really no answers in either direction. Man these discussions suck.

DanG

The answer is simple Christian. MS is capable. The question comes down to how much you want to spend, how much you want to do yourself, how much faith you put in the system, and sadly, how much ridicule you're ready to endure.

Fishey

Megasquirt is a fine standalone and it works flawlessly on multiple cars. It has its advantages and disadvantages. However, to bash it for its support levels is just beyond retardation. I have worked closely with multiple companies with there stand alone systems but none have had the support of megasquirt community. The people running megasquirt and knowledge of the system is far far far beyond that of any other stand alone and people are more then willing to go out of there way to help you. The companies that sell the megasquirt have been more then happy to help and I get the feeling that everyone I talk to has a real intrest in not only my project but every project that MS is used on. The people I have delt with are real car guys and I can not say I have recived the level of support from electromotive with there tec 3 or any other standalone. (Altho I hear motec is 1st class if you got the $$$)

-Sidenote Rant

NEVER EVER EVER USE REDLINE ENGINE MANAGEMENT! fine product actually but support from redline is the worst in the world.

MPD47

Fishey, the guys at electromotive are useless when you dont order from them. Were you calling for support on a product you had? Or just with quesitons. I've never had an issue getting what I needed from them.