Timing belt problem continues.
10-12-2006, 01:52 AM
#1
Drifting
Thread Starter
Timing belt problem continues.
My timing belt which I replaced along with the pump seems to be rubbing off ont e backside and starts forming a layer of rubber on the roller and a tiny bit on the pump (thin .25 mm lines on the pump and all over the roller).
this evenutally caused the layer of rubber formed on the roller to melt ot the belt when I shut it off and the roller was actually stuck to the belt and I had to push on it to break it loose.
so now I had another gates belt lying around (ordered a new one also from paragon and a new roller) and I installed this other new gates belt with the originaly roller on the car that did not have rubber on it and I ran the car again today for around 2 minutes and shut it off and again I can see rubber just starting to forma layer around the roller and tiny lines on the pump.
when running the pump/ roller are definately spinning and the belt does not make contact with anything else (only the backside is wearing off on the roller / pump).
not sure what to think now. I thought previously I had the tension too tight with teh kricket but now it doesn't feel to much especially as the motor wasn't hot yet after running fo 2 minutes.
I also felt that the water pump / pulley were hot after running for two minutes.
the belt makes two thin .25 mm lines of rubber on the pulley where the backside of the belt runs and evenly coats the roller with thin layer of rubber that eventually builds up.
could this be normal for a new belt ? the gates belt feels much more soft/ rubbery than the old contitech belt that orginally was on the car.
if the roller keeps on accumulating rubber on it and the rubber on the roller eventually melts to the belt again obviously this is not normal and makes me worried,
this evenutally caused the layer of rubber formed on the roller to melt ot the belt when I shut it off and the roller was actually stuck to the belt and I had to push on it to break it loose.
so now I had another gates belt lying around (ordered a new one also from paragon and a new roller) and I installed this other new gates belt with the originaly roller on the car that did not have rubber on it and I ran the car again today for around 2 minutes and shut it off and again I can see rubber just starting to forma layer around the roller and tiny lines on the pump.
when running the pump/ roller are definately spinning and the belt does not make contact with anything else (only the backside is wearing off on the roller / pump).
not sure what to think now. I thought previously I had the tension too tight with teh kricket but now it doesn't feel to much especially as the motor wasn't hot yet after running fo 2 minutes.
I also felt that the water pump / pulley were hot after running for two minutes.
the belt makes two thin .25 mm lines of rubber on the pulley where the backside of the belt runs and evenly coats the roller with thin layer of rubber that eventually builds up.
could this be normal for a new belt ? the gates belt feels much more soft/ rubbery than the old contitech belt that orginally was on the car.
if the roller keeps on accumulating rubber on it and the rubber on the roller eventually melts to the belt again obviously this is not normal and makes me worried,
Last edited by Yummybud924; 01-04-2007 at 12:44 AM.
10-12-2006, 02:11 AM
#2
Drifting
Thread Starter
this is the belt and roller with the rubber wearing off the backside and eventually melted to the belt.
that line on the belt was where it was stuck to the rubber on the roller.
now with a different gates belt and another roller it looks like it is starting to do the same thing, I'll run it again for 10 minutes tomorrow and see if more rubber acumulates on teh roller and some ont he pump, I tihnk it gets worse when the engine gets hot and the belt gets tighter but it is doing it now aswell when the belt isn't too tight and motor is cold.
that line on the belt was where it was stuck to the rubber on the roller.
now with a different gates belt and another roller it looks like it is starting to do the same thing, I'll run it again for 10 minutes tomorrow and see if more rubber acumulates on teh roller and some ont he pump, I tihnk it gets worse when the engine gets hot and the belt gets tighter but it is doing it now aswell when the belt isn't too tight and motor is cold.
10-12-2006, 02:21 AM
#3
Race Car
Man, I have no idea WTF is going on with that....
Did you check the tension using the 90* twist test?
Could it be rubbing at the bottom where it goes around the crank pulley, and maybe just shedding the rubber off on the pulley you are talking about?
I have seen rubber flakes build up at the bottom before. I'm really reaching here....
Did you check the tension using the 90* twist test?
Could it be rubbing at the bottom where it goes around the crank pulley, and maybe just shedding the rubber off on the pulley you are talking about?
I have seen rubber flakes build up at the bottom before. I'm really reaching here....
10-12-2006, 02:54 AM
#4
Drifting
Thread Starter
nope so rubber forming or faling anywhere else.
the rubber is mostly forming on the roller like in that pic.
there is also small thin lines of rubber on the pump but both sin.
the belt was set to 40 pounds and coudl be twisted 90 degres althought it gets tighter when hot. at. it might be a little too tight but I doubt it and it isn't crazy tight or anything. but who knows maybe the belt is suppose to be much looser.
yeah this is annoying I have to keep on removing parts and replacing the belt and i have thought about and checked every possilble thing I could think of far.
I'll run it again for ten minute tomorrow to see if coolant comes out of the bleed plug and if the thermostat opens up last time it didn't.
if the roller and pump start getting rubber on them again I don' t know what else to do, maybe I'll have ot put the new belt and roller on and tow it somewhere, however there is no porsche shop close enough to get it towed to and I'm not sure if I'd trust some mechanic who has never worked on a 944 to figure it out.
the rubber is mostly forming on the roller like in that pic.
there is also small thin lines of rubber on the pump but both sin.
the belt was set to 40 pounds and coudl be twisted 90 degres althought it gets tighter when hot. at. it might be a little too tight but I doubt it and it isn't crazy tight or anything. but who knows maybe the belt is suppose to be much looser.
yeah this is annoying I have to keep on removing parts and replacing the belt and i have thought about and checked every possilble thing I could think of far.
I'll run it again for ten minute tomorrow to see if coolant comes out of the bleed plug and if the thermostat opens up last time it didn't.
if the roller and pump start getting rubber on them again I don' t know what else to do, maybe I'll have ot put the new belt and roller on and tow it somewhere, however there is no porsche shop close enough to get it towed to and I'm not sure if I'd trust some mechanic who has never worked on a 944 to figure it out.
10-12-2006, 02:55 AM
#5
Drifting
Thread Starter
maybe its the Gates belt ? most likely not as all the gates belts feel softer and they ware OE belts. Maybe I'll order another Contitech belt and see if that stops it.
I have my old conti belt and I'm not sure if it is just old (2 years old) but the backside feels like much harder rubber and the gates feels like soft rubber.
I have my old conti belt and I'm not sure if it is just old (2 years old) but the backside feels like much harder rubber and the gates feels like soft rubber.
10-12-2006, 03:57 AM
#7
Drifting
Thread Starter
haha maybe and this wil be the 3rd Gates I'm going to strap on it and then I'll try a conti which will be cheapr 35 bucks with shipping for conti.
I just can't believe that could be the belt's fault, Gates makes the OE belts and feels and looks like it is a higher quality belt than the conti but it is more soft and rubbery.
I can't think of anything else so maybe I'll ditch the gates and order a conti.
I just can't believe that could be the belt's fault, Gates makes the OE belts and feels and looks like it is a higher quality belt than the conti but it is more soft and rubbery.
I can't think of anything else so maybe I'll ditch the gates and order a conti.
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10-12-2006, 09:33 AM
#8
Rennlist Member
its not the belt- check to make sure all of your pullys are turning- maybe the new wp is locked up or something. If you posted a pic of the front of the motor so we could see whats going on it would be more helpful.
10-12-2006, 09:35 AM
#9
Rennlist Member
i had a supra once that the belt started rubbing the rear cover for an unknown reason. I pulled it all apart and the press on guide on the crank pully had popped off and the belt wasnt tracking straight. Did you have the pulleys off and did you put any of them on backwards?
10-12-2006, 09:46 AM
#10
Racer
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I would replace all of your idlers/ pullys/ tensioners while you are in there. Why take a chance of killing a head for a couple of hundred bucks. I work on 944 in my area and always do the whole water pump/idlers/ pullys/ tensioners to get a base line on that car. There is a lot parts that can cause a belt failure besides a belt.
10-12-2006, 01:35 PM
#11
Drifting
Thread Starter
that's the thing, I did not want to take any chance so I changed every single thing in there, new sprockets, all new rollers/ tensioners, new seals, new water pump.
I'll post a pic of the front of the belt area. everything seems to be turning when I turn them by hand and when the motor is running I can see them turning.
I'll post a pic of the front of the belt area. everything seems to be turning when I turn them by hand and when the motor is running I can see them turning.
10-12-2006, 04:02 PM
#12
Drifting
Thread Starter
here are some pics. Also there is no coolant going to the big rad hose from the top of the rad ot the coolant flange on the head.
Last edited by Yummybud924; 01-04-2007 at 12:45 AM.
10-12-2006, 04:04 PM
#13
Drifting
Thread Starter
after running for a few minutes I can feel rubber dust forming on the water pump pulley , when I wipe my finger over it I get black rubber dust on my fingers.
the pump spins when the belt turns and doesn't seem to be seizing. although now I'm not sure if the top rad hose not getting coolant to the top of the motor may have something to do with this.
the pump spins when the belt turns and doesn't seem to be seizing. although now I'm not sure if the top rad hose not getting coolant to the top of the motor may have something to do with this.
10-12-2006, 04:22 PM
#15
Drifting
Thread Starter
yes that is a possibility I think I'm getting close to at least figuring out the problem.
I think there was no coolant or water in the block, the radiator and expansion thank are filled but no coolant was in the large coolant hose from the rad to the top of the motor (where the bleed plug is).
I removed the hose from the radiator and I'm pouring water in it right now but i dont' have anymore coolant so I'll go get some more coolant as well.
it's possible that hte pump is spinning dry.
I think there was no coolant or water in the block, the radiator and expansion thank are filled but no coolant was in the large coolant hose from the rad to the top of the motor (where the bleed plug is).
I removed the hose from the radiator and I'm pouring water in it right now but i dont' have anymore coolant so I'll go get some more coolant as well.
it's possible that hte pump is spinning dry.