How can you shift "between" gears?
10-10-2006, 12:29 PM
#16
Z
It is plenty long during a DE, and maybe even long enough during a race, but it is really, really different when you are racing someone down into a braking zone. During the enduro, which was the only time during the whole weekend that we had dry track conditions, the biggest challenge I faced was passing cars that were slower than I am through corners but that had significantly more HP than I do on the straights. So, one place I could pick people off was in the braking zones. Racing down to T1 with the other car trying to see who will blink first. 5th braking marker . . . both cars still going . . . 4th braking marker . . . both cars still going . . . approaching 3rd braking marker . . . faster cars gets on the brakes so i wait about another half a marker or so and then get on my brakes hard. That really doesn't leave you too much time to do a multiple gear downshift and then do a nice turn in so that you do not spin and take the other car out. I did this move several times fairly well and probably could have made the passes stick more often had I not misshifted into fourth nearly every time, which allowed the other car to pull even with me by the time we exited T1 and since they have more HP, i was back into a race again to T3 where they already had the inside line
All of that said, I have much to learn and I may well end up doing what you say with more experience.
TD
It is plenty long during a DE, and maybe even long enough during a race, but it is really, really different when you are racing someone down into a braking zone. During the enduro, which was the only time during the whole weekend that we had dry track conditions, the biggest challenge I faced was passing cars that were slower than I am through corners but that had significantly more HP than I do on the straights. So, one place I could pick people off was in the braking zones. Racing down to T1 with the other car trying to see who will blink first. 5th braking marker . . . both cars still going . . . 4th braking marker . . . both cars still going . . . approaching 3rd braking marker . . . faster cars gets on the brakes so i wait about another half a marker or so and then get on my brakes hard. That really doesn't leave you too much time to do a multiple gear downshift and then do a nice turn in so that you do not spin and take the other car out. I did this move several times fairly well and probably could have made the passes stick more often had I not misshifted into fourth nearly every time, which allowed the other car to pull even with me by the time we exited T1 and since they have more HP, i was back into a race again to T3 where they already had the inside line
All of that said, I have much to learn and I may well end up doing what you say with more experience.
TD
10-10-2006, 12:42 PM
#17
Race Director
Todd - thanks for the explanation. I don't race, nor do I play a racecar driver on TV (but I did stay at a Holiday Inn last night).
Anyway - given the scenario you mention above - perhaps when you're not in the pressure cooker to get past a guy in the brake zone, you should practice your "take the turn in 2nd" technique. The more practice you get with that method, the more it will become an subconscious thing for you to do. Program your brain - and when you're in that passing situation, you will be familiar with the different shifting technique.
Repetition always helps - to me, it sounds as if you are don't do that type of shifting enough to be used to it. And doing it under pressure isn't the time for you to be practicing it. Expecting to perfectly execute something that's not called upon often is silly.
Remember back when you started this madness, how unusual it felt for you to hold the steering wheel at the 9 and 3 oclock position? But over time, you got used to it, and now you can't but hold the wheel anywhere else. Same thing applies to your shifting - you are not well practiced in that technique, thus you are not precise and often get the wrong gear.
Now go, and win races, grasshopper!
-Z-man.
For reference, check out Ross Bentley's Inner Speed Secrets for more details on this type of thinking...
Anyway - given the scenario you mention above - perhaps when you're not in the pressure cooker to get past a guy in the brake zone, you should practice your "take the turn in 2nd" technique. The more practice you get with that method, the more it will become an subconscious thing for you to do. Program your brain - and when you're in that passing situation, you will be familiar with the different shifting technique.
Repetition always helps - to me, it sounds as if you are don't do that type of shifting enough to be used to it. And doing it under pressure isn't the time for you to be practicing it. Expecting to perfectly execute something that's not called upon often is silly.
Remember back when you started this madness, how unusual it felt for you to hold the steering wheel at the 9 and 3 oclock position? But over time, you got used to it, and now you can't but hold the wheel anywhere else. Same thing applies to your shifting - you are not well practiced in that technique, thus you are not precise and often get the wrong gear.
Now go, and win races, grasshopper!
-Z-man.
For reference, check out Ross Bentley's Inner Speed Secrets for more details on this type of thinking...
10-10-2006, 07:12 PM
#18
Yup . . . great idea. As you know, I am a big fan of Bentley as well. I think I will both chase down the mechanicals to find out why the shifter was getting sloppier AND practice shifts from 5th to 2nd at Summit Point.
The nice part about racing in the dry is that you sort of "forget" about driving and focus more on strategy and car placement. It is a lot of fun. The bad part is that you revert to your habits. Now, mine are not too bad, but the fancy stuff I have been working on lately, like Left Foot Braking, just didn't happen during the race. So the moral of the story is that I need to commit those driving techniques to habit during DEs so that they will come naturally during racing while I am not actively thinking about how I drive, although I have never, ever had a problem with shifting before.
The nice part about racing in the dry is that you sort of "forget" about driving and focus more on strategy and car placement. It is a lot of fun. The bad part is that you revert to your habits. Now, mine are not too bad, but the fancy stuff I have been working on lately, like Left Foot Braking, just didn't happen during the race. So the moral of the story is that I need to commit those driving techniques to habit during DEs so that they will come naturally during racing while I am not actively thinking about how I drive, although I have never, ever had a problem with shifting before.
10-10-2006, 10:26 PM
#20
Race Director
LFB? I wouldn't worry about that. Some of the great club racers I know (Keith Peare, Will DiGiovanni, and others) don't LFB. IF they don't, and consistently win races, I don't need to either.
-Z
-Z
10-11-2006, 02:50 PM
#23
Three Wheelin'
Originally Posted by TD in DC
Well, it's not really a 5 to 2 shift. It is really a 5 to neutral to 2 shift. Not really harsh at all.
All shifts go through nuetral, unless it's a motorcycle! :lol:
If you're in the braking zone, 5 to 2nd shouldn't be a big deal. I regularly go from 4th to second at braking zones, because I'm not fast enough to get it in to 5th (or as fast as TD). Well maybe once or twice at VIR, but I don't find I get anything additional out of it, except lower revs for a couple of feet.
10-11-2006, 03:24 PM
#25
ha ha very funny!
I think there is a real difference between going straight from 5 to 2 and going from 5 to neutral and then to 2. The easiest way to misshift is to try to pull a shift lever directly from one gear into another, particularly if you are try to shift diagonally. for example, take the 5 to 4 shift. If you try to pull it directly from 5 to 4, you increase the chances that you will pull at too great an angle and go into 2. Let out the clutch and blam . . . bye bye engine. By contrast, if you go from 5 to neutral, rather than pulling diagonally, you pull straight towards you to get into 4th. There really is very very little chance that you would get 2nd inadvertently. That's how I shift every shift: From one gear, to neutral, and then to the gear I want, which makes me think that something has come loose for me to go into 4th rather than second. It is almost like I can't get the shifter over to the left far enough.
I think there is a real difference between going straight from 5 to 2 and going from 5 to neutral and then to 2. The easiest way to misshift is to try to pull a shift lever directly from one gear into another, particularly if you are try to shift diagonally. for example, take the 5 to 4 shift. If you try to pull it directly from 5 to 4, you increase the chances that you will pull at too great an angle and go into 2. Let out the clutch and blam . . . bye bye engine. By contrast, if you go from 5 to neutral, rather than pulling diagonally, you pull straight towards you to get into 4th. There really is very very little chance that you would get 2nd inadvertently. That's how I shift every shift: From one gear, to neutral, and then to the gear I want, which makes me think that something has come loose for me to go into 4th rather than second. It is almost like I can't get the shifter over to the left far enough.
10-11-2006, 04:51 PM
#26
Race Director
The issue with 5th direct to 2nd is timing. At cal speedway I hit about 6000 RPM in the before braking down to 2nd or 3rd (actually forget which). Anway the problem is that when you skip gears you can quite easly apply brakes and down shift at too fast a road speed for the lower gear. Thus overreving the motor. If you go down into each gear then you have better time of matching the revs. I for the most part skip gears on down shift, but at this corner I actualy found going through all the gear to be much better from a timing perspective. Skipping I would a have to wait just the rigth amount before releasing the clutch in 2nd (or 3rd), but by hitting each gear or just one my timing was much better and it became easier to hit my turn in point at good speed and undercontrol.
