Why our cars are not made for drag racing...?
06-06-2006, 01:07 AM
#31
Originally Posted by yieldsign2
Curb weight: 2,965 lbs
Wheelbase: 94.5"
Length: 168.9"
Width: 68.3"
Height: 50.2"
Track front/rear: 58.2"/57.1"
Ground clearance: 4.7"
thats of an 83 944 which is lighter than a later 944....
and you did say 924/944.
BTW, 924 is like 2730 so you may be right on your weight but i was talking about 944 as that's all I really know about.
Wheelbase: 94.5"
Length: 168.9"
Width: 68.3"
Height: 50.2"
Track front/rear: 58.2"/57.1"
Ground clearance: 4.7"
thats of an 83 944 which is lighter than a later 944....
and you did say 924/944.
BTW, 924 is like 2730 so you may be right on your weight but i was talking about 944 as that's all I really know about.
Speaking of which. It is one of the cars main downfalls for race applications of any nature. Remove all excess seats, switch to fiber glass body panels and plexi sun roof...take out AC.. you will get a much better jump off the line.
06-06-2006, 02:38 AM
#35
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Originally Posted by Trucho-951
Lack of "low end" torque would be the main reason for not making it into the "A" list. Drag racer's know that although you have to finish first to win the race (unless you "break out"), a drag race is really won at the starting line. That's why 60 foot times (i.e. less than 1.5 sec.) are so critical to drag racing. Also, consistency (repeatability) is very important. If you cannot control your 1/4 mile times to within +/- 0.01 sec., then your car will not be competitive.
A 944 Turbo does not have the low RPM torque required to get a competitive launch "out of the hole" nor the strength in the drive train (if it did) to keep up with a healthy V8. With the aid of Nitrous Oxide injection, one could make up for the turbo lag at launch, but then it would require a healthy (strong) torque tube, cv shafts, transmission mounts and engine mounts to withstand the torsional shock created by the increase in torque. In addition, it would require suspension modifications, stronger rear spring rates, revalving of front and rear shocks to allow for adequate weight transfer to allow the rear tires to "hook up". And finally, it would require a bigger turbo and injectors to catch up (and pass?) those cars already dialed in for drag racing.
So, out of the box? No, a 944 turbo is not competitive, but with enough $$ invested in it, yes one can turn in into quite a wild 1/4 mile ride. But then again, for a similar $$ investment it would be much easier to improve other cars like mustangs and corvettes.
A 944 Turbo does not have the low RPM torque required to get a competitive launch "out of the hole" nor the strength in the drive train (if it did) to keep up with a healthy V8. With the aid of Nitrous Oxide injection, one could make up for the turbo lag at launch, but then it would require a healthy (strong) torque tube, cv shafts, transmission mounts and engine mounts to withstand the torsional shock created by the increase in torque. In addition, it would require suspension modifications, stronger rear spring rates, revalving of front and rear shocks to allow for adequate weight transfer to allow the rear tires to "hook up". And finally, it would require a bigger turbo and injectors to catch up (and pass?) those cars already dialed in for drag racing.
So, out of the box? No, a 944 turbo is not competitive, but with enough $$ invested in it, yes one can turn in into quite a wild 1/4 mile ride. But then again, for a similar $$ investment it would be much easier to improve other cars like mustangs and corvettes.
So, is anyone making a stronger 3.89 ring and pinion? That would help bigtime. Not that I care about drag, but autocross would be much easier.
06-06-2006, 03:15 AM
#36
Race Car
The fact the car is slower than $hit is one of the reason why people don't drag race it. Expensive clutch, low torque, low horsepower, and weak drivetrain parts make it less than ideal. I still enjoy drag race anything I can drive down the 1/4 mile strip but a $700 74 camaro will out run your 944 even if you put $10k into it. I think that right there is a good enough reason. If you think new parts are the same, I think 2 new ($3800 each) 944 crankshafts cost more than a NEW crate LS1 engine for a 2006 Vette with money left over for a complete nitrous kit for the LS1. Expensive Porsche parts is why Steven Rea installed a corvette 6 speed into his LS1 944 conversion. A salvage yard 2006 6 speed corvette transmission costs LESS than a USED 951 transmission with LSD.
I think you can use your 944 for whatever you want but I think why its not ideal for drag racing is very apparent.
I think you can use your 944 for whatever you want but I think why its not ideal for drag racing is very apparent.
06-06-2006, 07:21 AM
#38
Guys are right about the weight.
I have destroyed an RS6 and an STI from a light (the same light
) on relatively low boost - 18 psi. About 425 crank HP. Granny shifting.
My car weighs aboout 2600 with 1/2 tank.
This with new 275 MPS and fresh 60% S2 LSD.
BOTH of them tried to fly by me after I let off, you can imagine what happened to them at higher speed.
I think the STI kid was pissed because I kept my left hand outside on the A-pillar tapping my fingers the whole time I pulled 17 bus lengths on him.
I have destroyed an RS6 and an STI from a light (the same light
) on relatively low boost - 18 psi. About 425 crank HP. Granny shifting.My car weighs aboout 2600 with 1/2 tank.
This with new 275 MPS and fresh 60% S2 LSD.
BOTH of them tried to fly by me after I let off, you can imagine what happened to them at higher speed.
I think the STI kid was pissed because I kept my left hand outside on the A-pillar tapping my fingers the whole time I pulled 17 bus lengths on him.
06-06-2006, 11:46 AM
#41
Cleveland Rocks
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Originally Posted by flosho
Well, im not really interesting in why its not competitive or what not..
Guess it all depends on how strongly you want to drag race it or not......
06-06-2006, 11:55 AM
#42
Rennlist Member
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Bettendorf, IA
Posts: 661
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
For all these different weights, who is just telling curb weight and who is accounting for a driver? If you take that into consideration we have a 175-200 lb. (ish) swing on each weight. Just a thought.
________________
-Scott
85.5 n/a
________________
-Scott
85.5 n/a
06-06-2006, 12:09 PM
#43
Rennlist Member
I wouldn't say weight is a big reason. Late eighties mustangs are considered great drag racers and weighed between 2700-3100 lbs stock depending on whether it was a coupe or hatchback. But Mustangs are great drag racers because they've got v8's with great low end torque, strong solid rear axles that don't break, and strong tranny's that handle harsh shifting well. And even then, serious mustang drag racers will upgrade the rear end, upgrade parts of the tranny, and look for more power.
The question isn't whether you can. Of course you can. You can drag race anything. People would make much stronger arguments that you "can't" drag race a fwd car but it turns out that with some money and dedication you can make a 10 second Honda.
Drag racing is much harder on the drivetrain than autox. A good launch is hard on the drivetrain. No one at autox is working on their launch like drag racers do. And it's a rare autox driver who is launching as abusively as a drag racer does, or shifts as harshly. Autox lives in the middle ground. Drag racing is all about driveline abuse. WOT and hard shifts. Roadcourse racing is much harder on brakes and suspension. Autox is neither as abusive to the driveline nor as hard on the brakes and suspension.
Just address the weaknesses in the platform so that you can drag race a 924/944.
- CV joints are on the weak side. GNK (sp?) makes stronger ones
- 1st and 2nd gear have been known to lose a tooth under really harsh launches/shifts. I'm hazy on the details but I believe 1st and 5th are welded to the same shaft. So that'll be on the pricey side to replace.
- Independent rear suspensions don't do a great job of putting down power on launches. Takes a lot of work to reduce axle hop.
- Drag racing can be rough on clutches and the 924/944 is on the labor intensive side for a clutch change.
- Gearing may or may not be an issue. If you find that your combination of power and gearing requires you to throw a shift right before the end... that's going to hurt your times.
The question isn't whether you can. Of course you can. You can drag race anything. People would make much stronger arguments that you "can't" drag race a fwd car but it turns out that with some money and dedication you can make a 10 second Honda.
Drag racing is much harder on the drivetrain than autox. A good launch is hard on the drivetrain. No one at autox is working on their launch like drag racers do. And it's a rare autox driver who is launching as abusively as a drag racer does, or shifts as harshly. Autox lives in the middle ground. Drag racing is all about driveline abuse. WOT and hard shifts. Roadcourse racing is much harder on brakes and suspension. Autox is neither as abusive to the driveline nor as hard on the brakes and suspension.
Just address the weaknesses in the platform so that you can drag race a 924/944.
- CV joints are on the weak side. GNK (sp?) makes stronger ones
- 1st and 2nd gear have been known to lose a tooth under really harsh launches/shifts. I'm hazy on the details but I believe 1st and 5th are welded to the same shaft. So that'll be on the pricey side to replace.
- Independent rear suspensions don't do a great job of putting down power on launches. Takes a lot of work to reduce axle hop.
- Drag racing can be rough on clutches and the 924/944 is on the labor intensive side for a clutch change.
- Gearing may or may not be an issue. If you find that your combination of power and gearing requires you to throw a shift right before the end... that's going to hurt your times.
06-06-2006, 02:46 PM
#44
Drifting
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: midwest
Posts: 2,931
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
a 944 shell would be a eral nice startng point for a drag car....
right after you cut the floor pan out of it it will be at ground zero.
along the lines of my uncle's drag car It'll scare ya near to death!! That's no BS.
right after you cut the floor pan out of it it will be at ground zero.
along the lines of my uncle's drag car
It'll scare ya near to death!! That's no BS.
Last edited by 2bridges; 06-06-2006 at 07:06 PM.
06-06-2006, 03:34 PM
#45
Intermediate
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 35
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Legoland951
The fact the car is slower than $hit is one of the reason why people don't drag race it. Expensive clutch, low torque, low horsepower, and weak drivetrain parts make it less than ideal. I still enjoy drag race anything I can drive down the 1/4 mile strip but a $700 74 camaro will out run your 944 even if you put $10k into it. I think that right there is a good enough reason. If you think new parts are the same, I think 2 new ($3800 each) 944 crankshafts cost more than a NEW crate LS1 engine for a 2006 Vette with money left over for a complete nitrous kit for the LS1. Expensive Porsche parts is why Steven Rea installed a corvette 6 speed into his LS1 944 conversion. A salvage yard 2006 6 speed corvette transmission costs LESS than a USED 951 transmission with LSD.
I think you can use your 944 for whatever you want but I think why its not ideal for drag racing is very apparent.
I think you can use your 944 for whatever you want but I think why its not ideal for drag racing is very apparent.
i have draged my 951 plenty of time but i am also not "dumping" my clutch. i have really only been beat off the line by 4wd cars. most all of the other rwd cars and fwd cars that i have raced loose the line jump by dumping thier clutches and spinning the tires. i know there are weak spots in our cars but there are weak spots in all cars. it all depends on how you launch your car and how much time and money you would like to put into it IF it breaks. i have found the gearing is pretty good for a 1/4 mile.
944 Turbo
(1987 -1988)
1st 10:35 (3.500)
2nd 17:35 (2.059)
3rd 25:35 (1.400)
4th 29:30 (1.034)
5th 35:29 (0.829)
Rev 12:42 (3.500)
FDR 8:27 (3.375)