Belt Drive Turbo
05-25-2006, 06:09 PM
#2
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supercharger - forced induction using a pulley to turn the compressor...
turbocharger - exhaust turns the compressor (using a turbine)...
how is this not a supercharger?
turbocharger - exhaust turns the compressor (using a turbine)...
how is this not a supercharger?
05-25-2006, 06:17 PM
#4
Nissan Rulez
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the first centrufical superchargers were turbos with a pully instead of the exhaust. Most were made from old KKK turbos and ended up blowing up most of the engine that they were installed on. I would not presume to endorse or not endorse this product as i have never used this product before, but i do have quite a bit of experience with sc systems on ford mustangs. all in all i would recomend going with a more known name such as Procharger, Vortech, or Paxton for you sc needs.
05-25-2006, 06:52 PM
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I think the cost is for a complete patent pending system, which is driven off the Alternator. I think the idea is innovative if you ask me. Which you didn’t, but I got something to say like everyone else. hahaha
I will say that it is a supercharger, by its nature. Calling it something else is marketing. Might also be do to using updated modern Turbocharger wheels and housing. Which means higher efficiency. If it wasn’t for the NOVI - paxton and vortech would still be decades behind, and even then their units are not the most efficient.
I posted about these guys before with their home made supercharger. This unit appears to be the latest wrinkle. I also know that Thomas Knight has been doing boost for over 30 years and featured in A few magazines. I also know that one of the guys behind it has been featured in tech articles and such. So from what I could find out they are not crack pots.
They apparently have working units for the Probe, The Current Generation Cougar, the 924, the 944, Ford 3.8, and a few others. Based on the dimensions, the complete setup seems like a do-able solution for a lot of cars. I don’t care what they call it.
I will say that it is a supercharger, by its nature. Calling it something else is marketing. Might also be do to using updated modern Turbocharger wheels and housing. Which means higher efficiency. If it wasn’t for the NOVI - paxton and vortech would still be decades behind, and even then their units are not the most efficient.
I posted about these guys before with their home made supercharger. This unit appears to be the latest wrinkle. I also know that Thomas Knight has been doing boost for over 30 years and featured in A few magazines. I also know that one of the guys behind it has been featured in tech articles and such. So from what I could find out they are not crack pots.
They apparently have working units for the Probe, The Current Generation Cougar, the 924, the 944, Ford 3.8, and a few others. Based on the dimensions, the complete setup seems like a do-able solution for a lot of cars. I don’t care what they call it.
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05-25-2006, 07:06 PM
#8
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I believe that is x3m944 (West) from the pelican boards. very intelligent guy when it comes to boost...have had many many email exchanges with him
he is also willing to tell you everything about his products or boost in general....seems like he just wants to spread the bug!!
he is also willing to tell you everything about his products or boost in general....seems like he just wants to spread the bug!!
05-25-2006, 07:17 PM
#9
Nissan Rulez
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So know one gets the wrong idea I never said there was anything wrong with this setup. and yes its true that the Novi 2000 brought sc ing alot more respect, hell they Use the novi 1000 mo0stly now on stock applications and yes Vortech and Paxton are almost one and the same but nowadays the technology is such that if you want to turbo then get a turbo and if you want to sc then get a sc. they designed for thier specific application.
oh and one more thing none can deny Thomas Knight's products are good. except maybe for that electric sc. The products are well known throughout the industry.
oh and one more thing none can deny Thomas Knight's products are good. except maybe for that electric sc. The products are well known throughout the industry.
05-25-2006, 07:53 PM
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Thomas Knight http://www.boosthead.com
Turbo and High Performance Magazine.
http://www.turbomagazine.com/tech/04..._supercharger/
Sport Compact 05-05 no link available
Street Concepts 08-04 no link available
All magazine articles have praised the Electric Supercharger… so not related to this other than shows he knows his stuff, and this being only recent stuff, I know his stuff was in “MAX BOOST” and he has been around forever.
X3M944 maintains a blog http://Hausbrauen.blogspot.com I think they have a regular site but I don’t have a link for that one.
As far as any current Centrifugal Supercharger goes, it will cost about the same just for a bare supercharger as they charger for a starter kit, that includes mounts and a drive system.
Not to mention that the belts are external and you do not have to crack it open to service it or add an oil supply like some superchargers. Also considering that you can access everything without removing the unit or touching your stock belts on any car. Well that is something to consider. I say bully for them, thinking outside the box and coming up with a solution for the masses.
These guys also carry Lindsey Racings stuff, and when I called Lindsey I spoke to Dave Lindsey and asked about boosting a 924S, he said like most everyone else, if you want a turbo buy a factory turbo car, when we spoke about superchargers he said I should talk to these guys, they are authorized to carry their stuff and that they do superchargers for the 924 and 944. Course I knew about the supercharger bit, but was surprised to here it from someone like Lindsey.
I say dont knock it less you can prove it doesnt work. I doubt anyone on here has tried it. I might, if I dont sell the '24S and get a turbo.
Turbo and High Performance Magazine.
http://www.turbomagazine.com/tech/04..._supercharger/
Sport Compact 05-05 no link available
Street Concepts 08-04 no link available
All magazine articles have praised the Electric Supercharger… so not related to this other than shows he knows his stuff, and this being only recent stuff, I know his stuff was in “MAX BOOST” and he has been around forever.
X3M944 maintains a blog http://Hausbrauen.blogspot.com I think they have a regular site but I don’t have a link for that one.
As far as any current Centrifugal Supercharger goes, it will cost about the same just for a bare supercharger as they charger for a starter kit, that includes mounts and a drive system.
Not to mention that the belts are external and you do not have to crack it open to service it or add an oil supply like some superchargers. Also considering that you can access everything without removing the unit or touching your stock belts on any car. Well that is something to consider. I say bully for them, thinking outside the box and coming up with a solution for the masses.
These guys also carry Lindsey Racings stuff, and when I called Lindsey I spoke to Dave Lindsey and asked about boosting a 924S, he said like most everyone else, if you want a turbo buy a factory turbo car, when we spoke about superchargers he said I should talk to these guys, they are authorized to carry their stuff and that they do superchargers for the 924 and 944. Course I knew about the supercharger bit, but was surprised to here it from someone like Lindsey.
I say dont knock it less you can prove it doesnt work. I doubt anyone on here has tried it. I might, if I dont sell the '24S and get a turbo.
05-25-2006, 08:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Serge944
This isn't just another "turbonator." I don't understand why you guys are talking poorly of it.
05-25-2006, 09:16 PM
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The concept seems sound - take a Supercharger and drive it off the back of the Alternator. Which seems to be uncommon and solve a lot of mounting problems in cars.
All current Centrifugal units are based on the same concept, the only thing that differs is construction, drive mechanism (gears or belt, but still remain internal), and size.
So this is a unit that moves the drive externally, removing internal heat issues, which is a major problem with internal belt drives, no gears means no oil bath, high grade bearings means a long life.
Modern Turbo Wheel means high efficiency, something only the Procharer trully has going for it.
So how is this going to destroy a motor? Its no different than adding a turbo or other kind of supercharger. The name or marketing gimick doesnt mean anything.
As far as design, their have been a lot of start up supercharger companies in the last decade, some are still around, others have been bought out. So if someone with 30 years and has designed kits and holds patents to various drive systems is doing something new, whats the beef?
Boost + Fuel + Timing = Performance.
How you get boost - who cares, prove it doesnt work instead of saying it will destroy a motor.
Yea sure go ask the Mustang guys or Camaros or who ever. The only time they destroy motors is when they run to much boost, not enough fuel or something of the kind. It isnt because of the Supercharger.
As far as that goes, superchargers been around since 1860, if I recall that was one of the first patents, Mercedes ran some on their early 1900 era cars, etc.. Formula one, Nascar - one year then banned - etc... please try again.
The only thing that can be argued is if the Supercharger or belt drive widgit works.
What makes anyone here think it wouldnt? Thats always been my question I love the coolness of both x3m944 and Thomas Knights stuff. But my question has always been does it work?
That I think can only be proven with time, but seems that Mr. Knight has sold quite a few and he claims to have more data coming that will be posted on his site, seems to be the case with x3m944 as well.
For the price you might be able to get a used supercharger, fabricate mounts and add a pulley to drive it off the crank. But in a lot of cars, that isnt a viable option. Can anyone here imagine adding another pulley to the crank.
Mr. Knight says that to feed a 2.0 or 2.5 motor the unit draws a little over 7 HP to make 6 psi, that seems very impressive to me.
All current Centrifugal units are based on the same concept, the only thing that differs is construction, drive mechanism (gears or belt, but still remain internal), and size.
So this is a unit that moves the drive externally, removing internal heat issues, which is a major problem with internal belt drives, no gears means no oil bath, high grade bearings means a long life.
Modern Turbo Wheel means high efficiency, something only the Procharer trully has going for it.
So how is this going to destroy a motor? Its no different than adding a turbo or other kind of supercharger. The name or marketing gimick doesnt mean anything.
As far as design, their have been a lot of start up supercharger companies in the last decade, some are still around, others have been bought out. So if someone with 30 years and has designed kits and holds patents to various drive systems is doing something new, whats the beef?
Boost + Fuel + Timing = Performance.
How you get boost - who cares, prove it doesnt work instead of saying it will destroy a motor.
Yea sure go ask the Mustang guys or Camaros or who ever. The only time they destroy motors is when they run to much boost, not enough fuel or something of the kind. It isnt because of the Supercharger.
As far as that goes, superchargers been around since 1860, if I recall that was one of the first patents, Mercedes ran some on their early 1900 era cars, etc.. Formula one, Nascar - one year then banned - etc... please try again.
The only thing that can be argued is if the Supercharger or belt drive widgit works.
What makes anyone here think it wouldnt? Thats always been my question I love the coolness of both x3m944 and Thomas Knights stuff. But my question has always been does it work?
That I think can only be proven with time, but seems that Mr. Knight has sold quite a few and he claims to have more data coming that will be posted on his site, seems to be the case with x3m944 as well.
For the price you might be able to get a used supercharger, fabricate mounts and add a pulley to drive it off the crank. But in a lot of cars, that isnt a viable option. Can anyone here imagine adding another pulley to the crank.
Mr. Knight says that to feed a 2.0 or 2.5 motor the unit draws a little over 7 HP to make 6 psi, that seems very impressive to me.