Calmchaos

How would I go about acquiring a 3.0L engine?
Any particular place that usually has these ....... lying around?
How much do they usually cost? With the 6speed tranny?

Is it hard to do the swap? Anything overly complicated... or do you just (without trying to oversimplify) drop it in?

I know I sound exceedingly stupid but I'm just looking for info on this swap.

Thanks
-Brett

seattle951

968 engines appear regularly on e-bay. The least amount that I have seen one sell for is $2,300. I paid $3,000 for my 6-speed LSD and $1,200 to install it in my 951. There is a shop in Bellevue, WA that does 968 engine/drivetrain conversions. I considered it for my 924S. It is somewhat involved and expensive.

streckfu's

This has come up before and would seem to be a pretty easy swap into the 944. You would need, in addition to the complete engine, the wiring harness, computer, and a variety of smaller items.

It's been done before, so try doing a search.

Calmchaos

I tried search and I only get people who say they have done it. No real info. I probably just suck at searching if that's possible.

-Brett

Gator_86_951

www.944s3.com

Matt Marks

Figure between $4000 and $5500 for the 968 engine depending on the condition of the engine and what accessories come on it.

Install, of course, is extra.

Don't forget that there are a lot of 968 specific parts such as the water pump ($$$) and hoses ($$$) that are needed. Also, plan on upgrading to a Turbo radiator as the NA one is not sufficient if you run the car hard. Also, you need to make sure you get the other ancillaries like the MAF and harness with the car or it will not run. Some harness splicing is inevitable as the harnesses aren't directly compatible with the NA central electrics.

You'll also need some kind of an cone air filter.

You will need an S2 clutch and flywheel if you stay with your current tranny - ring and pinion life may become an issue as you're putting 80 more HP through it than stock. If you get the 968 tranny, you will need to also get the torque tube as it's slightly shorter than the NA to accomodate the longer 968 bell housing.

Count on a brake upgrade in the near future as well if you track the car - your brakes will be barely adequate on the street much less the track.

Engine is not significantly heavier than the NA engine, so handling balance won't be terrible upset.

How do I know all this - I've done the swap (see my avatar). While I am hugely satisfied with the result, it was neither easy nor inexpensive.

If you're interested, my wrench here in Washington DC has done a bunch of these with outstanding results and can probably locate the engine for you (I think they've done 4 in the last 2 years)

also - check out www.944S3.org (or .com) for more information. If you have this done, figure $10k for a shop to do it, $6-7k for a do it yourself project.

PM me for more details.

seattle951

The shop that I consulted in Bellevue provided almost identical feedback to Matt's including the comments about ring and pinion life. The shop, however, was confident that they could secure a 968 engine for less than $4k but the total project cost estimate was in-line with Matt's comments.

Rather than upgrading my 924S, they also suggested that I buy their last 924S/968 upgrade from its current owner for $6,000. If you figure that he spent $10k for the upgrade plus $3,000 for the car, he was only going to recoup half his investment.

Z-man

There's an NNJR PCA AXer who did the 968 swap into his 924S.

When you add everything up, it would have been cheaper to outright buy a 968.

-Z.

Matt Marks

Seattle and Z-man,

You are spot on. Wish I had bought rather than built.

$10k will get you a good earlier 968 these days that has all the nice goodies (and maybe even working A/C) Plus, you can finance it.

Matt Marks

That being said - I can make you a nice deal on mine towards the end of the year - fully street legal (including cat, inspection and emissions) and finished P2 overall in 944 Supercup last year.

4 wins out of 4 races this year with 4% cold leakdown on all cylinders, big reds, quaife, escort cup shocks, camber plates, you name it.

PM me if interested.

Lemming

The swap is not that difficult - my swap is pretty much documented here https://rennlist.com/forums/showthre...ferrerid=23673

Lot's of great help from listers and from the 944S3 link posted above.

As for the radiator upgrade, I've been tracking my car pretty hard and am still running the 924S radiator with little problem. You will need better brakes!

tuc

I'm parting out a 91 S2 and have many of the parts mentioned in this thread including a 3.0L engine. The S2 tranny will most likely find it way into my 951. I just posted it up today. PM me if you would like more info

Chris

944J

This isn't true. I've heard of lots of people with stock brakes going crazy on the track so stock should work fine on the street.

Matt Marks

944J - I think you're wrong. 944 NA brakes are marginal at best for anything more than commuting. (try 4 or 5 hard stops in a row from say - 60 to 20) Adding 80 HP doesn't help. There's a reason that the Turbo cars got bigger brakes and that the Turbo S and 968 got even bigger (M030) ones.

While not wanting to start a separate debate on the merits of NA braking power - I think you should go with the collective experience of those who've done the engine swap and realize that the first thing they need to do is upgrade the brakes.

Not an immediate need, but a close second as soon as the bank account recovers.

Matt Marks

Sorry - I keep wasting all the bandwidth in this thread.

If you're going to do the swap - highly recommend that you do a 968 engine vs. an S2 unless you get a smoking deal on the S2 engine. The incremental cost difference between the S2 and 968 engines is minimal, especially given the overall cost of the total project. Spend the extra cash.

Apologies Tuc as the 968 swap is something I'm very passionate about as I have spent 2 or 3 times the value of my car on this (even with all the go fast goodies) - I love the results but want to make sure that someone who's contemplating this is fully informed.