Bill Lucas

buyclutch.com? http://buyclutch.com/PorscheSpecials.html

The pricing is phenomenal. They're selling on ebay as well as via their website.

I figure since I have to do the throw out bearing I may as well do the full clutch kit and get it over with. I'm hearing a whooooooo noise occasionally after shifting and I definitely have a bad throw out bearing.

I'd just like to know if anyone has experience with the seller. Thanks in advance.

H2

It's such an expensive job...that I don't like redoing..I usually stick with stock parts that are guarateen fresh and compatible. Interesting site... Like you, I wonder if they carry good stuff? I've been taken so often on eBay I don't trust much of what I see there anymore.

Harvey

VaSteve

Look on ebay. Some regional parts chains offer the SACHS kit for like $385 compared with other's $515.

I look at the listing and just called them. I didn't buy because my clutch was OK.

Tony K

I looked on the site.

I hate how aftermarket parts people abuse the acronym "OEM". Most of what is claimed to be "OEM" by people is actually stock aftermarket.

I would ask this place who makes the clutches. Not "Are they Sachs," but "Who makes them?" If they say "Sachs," ask "for all the components?"

Most of these places that offer cheap clutch parts are selling cheap aftermarket stuff (usually with a higher mark up than the people selling true OEM at discount prices). For a street car that is to be depended upon, I would not use a pressure plate that wasn't made by Sachs. Clutch disk I'd accept Sachs or Valeo, but since you get the best price with a kit, that means the complete Sachs kit.

Cheap clutch deals? caveat emptor If this places has the real thing, then it is a great deal. But the last time I was shopping, the best deal I could find for a complete Sachs kit was around $450, IIRC (but my memory fades).

People should be looking for best quality and best price -- not "What's the cheapest way I can 'rig my Porsha to keep it barely on the road".

You know how all the books and magazines and popular opinion say that when looking to buy a car, look at the service history? It is useless to see a stack of papers and go "oh, great! It has all this service history -- it must be a good car!" The point of a car having a service history is that you check it thoroughly, read everything, look at who did the work, what parts were used, what has gone wrong, and what major jobs have and have not been done, and use that information to make a wise decision. If I saw a car that was maintained by cheap parts, I would pass on it in favor of one whose replacement parts are by the original manufacturer or of noted good quality manufacturers. If I'm buying a car and paying more because a lot of work has been done, I don't want to be doing it again any time soon!

My more than two cents.


EDIT: I was typing this when Steve posted. Okay, so $385 -- wow, I got snookered! Are the eBay vendors licensed dealers who can support warranties?

BlueDog944

"ALL CLUTCH KITS LISTED ARE BRAND-NEW O.E.M. PRODUCTS FOR THE AUTOMOTIVE MAKERS."

By OEM, do they mean the rubber centered clutch? That's what came with the car. If so, then skip big time.

I'm in the middle of a clutch job on my car. Figured I'd support those that support us and bought it from a sponsor (Paragon Products). Their prices are reasonable and service is top notch. When I buy from them I feel very confident that the part I get will be the right one to fit my car. Money well spent.

Gator_86_951

The joys of n/a ownership. I *had* to upgrade mine.

Bill Lucas

Thanks for the advice. While price is a consideration, quality is much more important. I've already put $2k into the car to make sure I'm up to date and I don't mind spending more to make sure it's right.

At this point I know I need a throw out bearing so I'm thinking that I'll tear into the clutch and see what is in there. It's not a big deal to me if the car is down for a few days. It's more important that I get the right parts for the car.

BTW, it's a 1989 S2 so clutch kits seem a little harder to find than some of the other 944 models.

Tony K

The rubber-hubbed clutch disc was discontinued a few years ago, and an attempt to order that should result in being directed to order the spring-hub one instead. So as long as you order Sachs from an authorized vendor, you should get the correct thing. There are probably people still trying to pawn off old stock of the rubber ones somewhere--these might be some of the "bargain" deals.

Here is the issue with O.E.M. -- there are three situations:

1) The exact part as what was put on the car at the factory, made by the same company or companies. This is what most people think when you say "OEM", and as far as I know the correct definition.

2) At some point after the manufacture of the vehicle, the company (i.e. Porsche) switched suppliers. For example (and I'm not sure if this is a correct example), the original timing belt was made by Continental, but if you buy a "Genuine Porsche" belt today it says Gates on it. At some point the contract with the original supplier ran out, and someone else won the new deal. Now which is OEM? The original part, or the one that Porsche now goes with? Some people will debate this, but IMHO "original" refers to what was originally on the car, not what a new "genuine" replacement will be. When a company switches suppliers later in the game, it is usually for better price and still acceptable quality, not because it is a better or the best part available.

3) Then there are these companies who sell stock aftermarket parts and call them OEM, although the parts they are selling, from the specific factories where they were made, were never installed from the factory or authorized as original parts. They are, by every definition of the word, aftermarket, but some vendors wrongfully use (abuse) the acronym OEM by calling their parts that, either to distinguish it from a performance part, or because it's "close enough" or "same thing" in their I-want-my-money-I-don't-really-give-a-damn opinions.

"Victor Reinz" gaskets are now made by Dana corp, IIRC (again, might be mistaken). I believe they are made in the USA, too. I am pretty confident that the original gaskets used on the 944 were not made in the USA (I may be mistaken). But here are some examples of things that could happen or may have happened along the way, using head gaskets as an example:

1) Porsche switches from Company X to Company Y to supply them with head gaskets to put in boxes that say "Genuine Porsche" on them.

2) Victor Reinz is bought by Dana. Production is moved to the USA.

3) Victor Reinz was the original supplier of head gaskets, but they close their plant in Europe and open a new one in Taiwan or Malaysia.

4) Victor Reinz goes out of business and some other company buys the rights to the name. (great real example of this is Raydyot mirrors)

Any combination of the above, and then some. These are all made up; I don't even know whether Victor Reinz even existed in the 80s, much less where they were made or if they were OEM on the 944 (all I know is that a few parts places that sell "OEM" parts sell a set of gaskets branded "Victor Reinz", but it is a division of Dana. The point is, you have to be careful with what you buy when people claim that something is "OEM". It is better to know what was on the car originally, and if the car still has the original factory part on it, compare it to the new one to see if it is actually the same thing.

Aside from that and knowing in general what was used from the factory, a handful fo the myriad vendors we all deal with, and perhaps the PCA tech advisors or a few others who have been working on them from day one, are our best source of knowing what was actually originally put on our cars, and whether it is the best quality part or if it has been superceded by something of better quality.

Blue Dog - I agree - "money well spent".

- T

nickg

mostly correct, but somewaht wrong.
OEM is Original equipment manufacturer and is a generic term for parts made by them or other OES (original equipment service) parts in the market. True aftermarket parts will NEVER have any oe style markings on them. Typically Sachs(which ahs been bought and sold about 50 times in the last decade) will have sachs parts in a kit; this is not to say that they will not have a throw out bearing that is not sachs or a disc that isn't either. It is common to have makers of these parts to buy out parts from other people, common in clutches especially. You will often get LUK or Valeo parts in and F&S kits (sachs OTHER name) In the automotive buisness, place of manufacture is a secondary concern to brand. Dana has owned Victor Reinz for a VERY long time, they are the European end of their gasket divisions. (just as Goetze is the euro version of TRW) Either of these were contracters to porsche for various gaskets.
addionally , car makers do not always use the OEM maker for their OES parts, thusly BOTH brands can claim to be OEM. You talked about timing belts in particular, that is a part that has a number of problems, so I would only but that from the dealer(btw, 16v is conti, 8v was gates)
Clutches, you can still get rubber centered clutches from both the dealer and Sachs, that is what they call by listings in both cases. sachs lists the spring center as an upgraded part and gives it a different kit number. I work in the aftermarket division of Bosal, we make OEM (for GM and others) OES for subie and volvo(we are not the oem) and aftermarket for all imports. I can tell you the oes and the aftermarket are very similar(most times it is just the box)
Oh, my experience: after seeing, selling and installing? LUK over Valeo over Sachs(they have real quality issues in the last 5+ years),Tbelt? I get mine at the deale, seen conti's bo and no gates...just scared to order it from anywhere but the dealer.
Ate>zimmerman>brembo
***>skf
FTE=***=ate= good hydraulics
conti> most any, belt save 8v dealer gates
LUK>valeo>sachs> any other brand
Goetze>Reinz
iwis> most other brands

KuHL 951

I just recieved an email back from them. I was enquiring about the 951 kit. The reply was it was made by Sachs, the OEM supplier.

Tony K

Thank you, Nick.

By the way, you are one of about a dozen people whom I have heard or read expressing a preference of *** over SKF.

apierce918

gripforceclutch has a store on ebay and they sold me a sachs clutch kit for that same price.

nickg

well it is really not where things are made anymore(except india BTW..ALL JUNK) it is how the company does it's quality control, sadly skf sucks...(an american company too) compared to ***. I have had many experiences with wheelbearings in particular that were no where near as good as they should have been..ID AND OD problems with skf, get a *** bearing and VOILA! Valeo is making the best overall line in the market, their clutches are great and last (OEM/OES parts) but where you really see it is in lighting, head and shoulders better than most all others (hella too). The best suspension parts are made by Lemforder btw, Balo makes the best steel products(rotors, heads, cranks and such) as they make many of the original castings for Merc and the other germans. Even GKN has gotten worse in quality in the last 10 years. I think the result of the germany's reuniting and the movement towards less skilled labor in the Eu in general. Much of what people think are great products are just skating by on old reputation now.
Oh, Elring is a great product! their stuff is great! I won't use any other seal.(most Goezte kits have elring seals too)