my new dream project
03-22-2006, 03:44 AM
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my new dream project
Since I'm crazy about preserving the world we live in and Audi just won Le Mans with a 650hp / 1100TQ diesel twin turbo, my new dream project is to put a diesel engine into my 944 project car.
AUDI MAKES HISTORY AS DIESEL-POWERED R10 TDI WINS MOBIL 1 TWELVE HOURS OF SEBRING
http://www.americanlemans.com/News/Article.aspx?ID=1872
My 944 car was bought for only $550 and I'm having fun learning about it and would like to put a dodge cummins diesel into it or some other high HP engine with the intention of running straigh vegetable oil as the primary fuel using a single stage fuel line.
Any engine/engine transplant experts have any constructive comments about this?
The steps seem to be:
1) see if it fits
2) see if its weight is approx the same
3) make engine mounts
4) make parts to mount it to 951 trans or custom trans
5) wiring
6) all the little stuff
This sems like a good engine with 325 hp @ 2900 rpm and 600 lb-ft torque @ 1600 rpm.
http://www.cummins.com/na/pages/en/p...urbodiesel.cfm
Remember the goal here is to have something that is good looking, fast and powerful, and doesnt contribute to the demise of the planet and the human race.
AUDI MAKES HISTORY AS DIESEL-POWERED R10 TDI WINS MOBIL 1 TWELVE HOURS OF SEBRING
http://www.americanlemans.com/News/Article.aspx?ID=1872
My 944 car was bought for only $550 and I'm having fun learning about it and would like to put a dodge cummins diesel into it or some other high HP engine with the intention of running straigh vegetable oil as the primary fuel using a single stage fuel line.
Any engine/engine transplant experts have any constructive comments about this?
The steps seem to be:
1) see if it fits
2) see if its weight is approx the same
3) make engine mounts
4) make parts to mount it to 951 trans or custom trans
5) wiring
6) all the little stuff
This sems like a good engine with 325 hp @ 2900 rpm and 600 lb-ft torque @ 1600 rpm.
http://www.cummins.com/na/pages/en/p...urbodiesel.cfm
Remember the goal here is to have something that is good looking, fast and powerful, and doesnt contribute to the demise of the planet and the human race.
03-22-2006, 04:41 AM
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Originally Posted by FRporscheman
DO IT! I love diesels, I've had 3, and still have one. Though they pollute more than anything on Earth.
My car will run on VEGETABLE OIL that will produce only carbon dioxide as a pollution.
03-22-2006, 08:59 AM
#4
Burning Brakes
Wouldnt Vegetable Oil be fairly expensive? I've never heard of using it in a car though, wouldnt you have to worry about it congieling, or going rancid, thus screwing up your motor?
What about doing a natural gas conversion?
What about doing a natural gas conversion?
03-22-2006, 01:42 PM
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Vegetable oil is actually a really good alternative to diesel, also conola oil and left over grease from fast food restaurants. I never knew anything about it either until I did a big research project on it a few weeks ago.
This link has some good info on it: http://www.biodieselnow.com/
This link has some good info on it: http://www.biodieselnow.com/
03-22-2006, 05:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Erzengal
Wouldnt Vegetable Oil be fairly expensive? I've never heard of using it in a car though, wouldnt you have to worry about it congieling, or going rancid, thus screwing up your motor?
What about doing a natural gas conversion?
What about doing a natural gas conversion?
03-22-2006, 05:12 PM
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I thought it was interesting that the original diesel engine was made to run on peanut oil. Also ford predicted that all future fuels and building materials would be derived from vegetables (hemp, soy, etc.)
Henry Ford made a car that was made only of plastics dervied natural vegetable sources, except for a steal tube frame, in the 1940's. There is a famous picture of him swinging an ax into the back of the car, demonstrating how this plastic composit was so strong. The ax bounced right off. He used an ethanol/gasoline mixture for that car.
But now that Audi has a 650hp, 1100TQ diesel engine that can theoretically be run on pure vegetable oil left over from McDonald's fry cooks why not go with that? There is zero net pollution since the carbon dioxide produced from the combustion of the fuel.
More info:
WOLF Pflanzenöltechnik (WOLF Vegetable oil technology) has been providing advanced single-tank SVO systems since the mid-90s. WOLF has SVO systems for Direct Injection diesels, and has raced a 245 km/h Audi A3 Pumpe Düse PDI running on SVO in 24-hour endurance races at Nürburgring. German site, use Google translation.
E-Mail: service@pflanzenoeltechnik.de
http://www.wolf-pflanzenoel-technik.de/
The Folkecenter for Renewable Energy in Denmark holds regular SVO workshops for installation mainly of Elsbett and VWP single-tank SVO systems. Converted cars:
http://www.folkecenter.dk/plant-oil/...s_examples.htm
Danish SVO Workshop
http://www.eilishoils.com/pages/dk_wshop_2005.htm
Niels Ansø of the Folkecenter reported to the Biofuel mailing list on using single-tank SVO systems with both DI and PDI diesels:
"Using SVO in TDIs and PDIs it not an issue when using proper conversion technology and proper SVO fuel quality, meeting the limits specified e.g. in the German RK standard. Proper conversion includes injectors, glow plugs, timing and other fuel settings.
"See some single-tank SVO cars here. We have made 65 so far. http://www.folkecenter.dk/plant-oil/...s_examples.htm
"We have converted several TDIs and one PDI with SVO single-tank systems plus heater (boiler) for winter starts. The PDI is a Lupo 3L 1.2, and has been running on Faroe Island for more than a year now.
"Some of the TDIs have passed two years and about 100,000 km. We have imported one TDI from Germany with more than 330,000km on SVO with a single-tank system.
"Two weeks ago I tried the new VW Touran 2.0 PDI (4 valves/cyl) with a single-tank SVO system. It was very convincing, both the start and driving. The German company who converted it (VWP) claims that they make the type emission approval for all their conversions, which for this car is EURO4.
"SVO professionals claim that the high injection pressure with PDIs is not an issue. If you study the German '100 tractor programme' (VWP) you will see that some of the most successful conversions use PDI technology.
"The 'original' 3-cyl 1.5 liter Elsbett Multi-Fuel engine had a PDI system 30 years ago, so it is not new."
Henry Ford made a car that was made only of plastics dervied natural vegetable sources, except for a steal tube frame, in the 1940's. There is a famous picture of him swinging an ax into the back of the car, demonstrating how this plastic composit was so strong. The ax bounced right off. He used an ethanol/gasoline mixture for that car.
But now that Audi has a 650hp, 1100TQ diesel engine that can theoretically be run on pure vegetable oil left over from McDonald's fry cooks why not go with that? There is zero net pollution since the carbon dioxide produced from the combustion of the fuel.
More info:
WOLF Pflanzenöltechnik (WOLF Vegetable oil technology) has been providing advanced single-tank SVO systems since the mid-90s. WOLF has SVO systems for Direct Injection diesels, and has raced a 245 km/h Audi A3 Pumpe Düse PDI running on SVO in 24-hour endurance races at Nürburgring. German site, use Google translation.
E-Mail: service@pflanzenoeltechnik.de
http://www.wolf-pflanzenoel-technik.de/
The Folkecenter for Renewable Energy in Denmark holds regular SVO workshops for installation mainly of Elsbett and VWP single-tank SVO systems. Converted cars:
http://www.folkecenter.dk/plant-oil/...s_examples.htm
Danish SVO Workshop
http://www.eilishoils.com/pages/dk_wshop_2005.htm
Niels Ansø of the Folkecenter reported to the Biofuel mailing list on using single-tank SVO systems with both DI and PDI diesels:
"Using SVO in TDIs and PDIs it not an issue when using proper conversion technology and proper SVO fuel quality, meeting the limits specified e.g. in the German RK standard. Proper conversion includes injectors, glow plugs, timing and other fuel settings.
"See some single-tank SVO cars here. We have made 65 so far. http://www.folkecenter.dk/plant-oil/...s_examples.htm
"We have converted several TDIs and one PDI with SVO single-tank systems plus heater (boiler) for winter starts. The PDI is a Lupo 3L 1.2, and has been running on Faroe Island for more than a year now.
"Some of the TDIs have passed two years and about 100,000 km. We have imported one TDI from Germany with more than 330,000km on SVO with a single-tank system.
"Two weeks ago I tried the new VW Touran 2.0 PDI (4 valves/cyl) with a single-tank SVO system. It was very convincing, both the start and driving. The German company who converted it (VWP) claims that they make the type emission approval for all their conversions, which for this car is EURO4.
"SVO professionals claim that the high injection pressure with PDIs is not an issue. If you study the German '100 tractor programme' (VWP) you will see that some of the most successful conversions use PDI technology.
"The 'original' 3-cyl 1.5 liter Elsbett Multi-Fuel engine had a PDI system 30 years ago, so it is not new."
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03-22-2006, 05:13 PM
#8
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Go to you local junk yard and have a look at the Dodge Cummins engine. They are BIG in every way. I don’t think you can fit one in a 944. A better choice would be a VW TDI, ideally the Euro TDI (135hp) engine would be the best.
Also, do a little more research before you decide if you really want to go the diesel route. Making your own fuel is not as easy as you might think. Initial cost is a lot and the constant hassle of making it turned me off from doing this. Another thing to consider is that vegetable oil is very expensive compared to diesel oil. You’ll not going to be able to afford driving it every day on Veg. oil. Remember, there is no such a thing as free fuel. Everything cost one way or another.
My commuter car is a ’00 Jetta TDI GLS, excellent fuel mileage and it feels like a gasoline engine of the same size (1.9L). Normally I get 46miles/gallon at 80mph AND get over 700 miles on a single tank of diesel!!! At 60mph I can get over 60mpg . There are a lot of people on the TDI forum that have 900, some with 1000 & 1100, a few 1200, a couple 1300 and ONE 1400mile/tank TDI.
Also, do a little more research before you decide if you really want to go the diesel route. Making your own fuel is not as easy as you might think. Initial cost is a lot and the constant hassle of making it turned me off from doing this. Another thing to consider is that vegetable oil is very expensive compared to diesel oil. You’ll not going to be able to afford driving it every day on Veg. oil. Remember, there is no such a thing as free fuel. Everything cost one way or another.
My commuter car is a ’00 Jetta TDI GLS, excellent fuel mileage and it feels like a gasoline engine of the same size (1.9L). Normally I get 46miles/gallon at 80mph AND get over 700 miles on a single tank of diesel!!! At 60mph I can get over 60mpg . There are a lot of people on the TDI forum that have 900, some with 1000 & 1100, a few 1200, a couple 1300 and ONE 1400mile/tank TDI.
03-22-2006, 06:00 PM
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The Passat 2.0 TDi would be pretty good. 135HP but loads of torque, great accelleration. There are chips and mods for more power also.
What would you do about the transmission? A Turbo trans would be OK, except for highway cruise. An NA or S2 trans would be too short, IMO.
-Joel.
What would you do about the transmission? A Turbo trans would be OK, except for highway cruise. An NA or S2 trans would be too short, IMO.
-Joel.
03-22-2006, 06:05 PM
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My friend has a dodge cummins truck that I looked at. It didn't seem any bigger than our 944 engines or the v8's that lots of people are puttingin their cars. But I do need to verify the size and weight. Keep in mind that this is a v6 engine and the 944 was originally designed to hold a v6. I'm also not interested in putting a 135HP engine in my car since it allready has one of those. I might put one of those vw tdi's into a vw van, but not a porsche.
Why would waste vegetable oil cost me a lot of money when the following is true?
1) a man who owns 4 McDonald's in Alabama now pays nothing for his fuel for his VW New Beetle
2) the same man has enough fuel (waste oil) to run 20-30 vehicles annually
3) McDonald's prepares more than 6.8 million pounds of french fries every day to meet customer demand around the world. (thats a lot of FREE FUEL)
4) McDonald's alone produces enough free fuel to power around 150,000 cars each year (http://www.licenseenews.com/news/news167.html)
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11809771/
"I throw away 10,000 gallons of grease every year from all my locations," Tomey said. "I have more than I can use."
Why would waste vegetable oil cost me a lot of money when the following is true?
1) a man who owns 4 McDonald's in Alabama now pays nothing for his fuel for his VW New Beetle
2) the same man has enough fuel (waste oil) to run 20-30 vehicles annually
3) McDonald's prepares more than 6.8 million pounds of french fries every day to meet customer demand around the world. (thats a lot of FREE FUEL)
4) McDonald's alone produces enough free fuel to power around 150,000 cars each year (http://www.licenseenews.com/news/news167.html)
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11809771/
"I throw away 10,000 gallons of grease every year from all my locations," Tomey said. "I have more than I can use."
Originally Posted by Imo000
Go to you local junk yard and have a look at the Dodge Cummins engine. They are BIG in every way. I don’t think you can fit one in a 944. A better choice would be a VW TDI, ideally the Euro TDI (135hp) engine would be the best.
Also, do a little more research before you decide if you really want to go the diesel route. Making your own fuel is not as easy as you might think. Initial cost is a lot and the constant hassle of making it turned me off from doing this. Another thing to consider is that vegetable oil is very expensive compared to diesel oil. You’ll not going to be able to afford driving it every day on Veg. oil. Remember, there is no such a thing as free fuel. Everything cost one way or another.
My commuter car is a ’00 Jetta TDI GLS, excellent fuel mileage and it feels like a gasoline engine of the same size (1.9L). Normally I get 46miles/gallon at 80mph AND get over 700 miles on a single tank of diesel!!! At 60mph I can get over 60mpg . There are a lot of people on the TDI forum that have 900, some with 1000 & 1100, a few 1200, a couple 1300 and ONE 1400mile/tank TDI.
Also, do a little more research before you decide if you really want to go the diesel route. Making your own fuel is not as easy as you might think. Initial cost is a lot and the constant hassle of making it turned me off from doing this. Another thing to consider is that vegetable oil is very expensive compared to diesel oil. You’ll not going to be able to afford driving it every day on Veg. oil. Remember, there is no such a thing as free fuel. Everything cost one way or another.
My commuter car is a ’00 Jetta TDI GLS, excellent fuel mileage and it feels like a gasoline engine of the same size (1.9L). Normally I get 46miles/gallon at 80mph AND get over 700 miles on a single tank of diesel!!! At 60mph I can get over 60mpg . There are a lot of people on the TDI forum that have 900, some with 1000 & 1100, a few 1200, a couple 1300 and ONE 1400mile/tank TDI.
03-22-2006, 06:11 PM
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I'm still looking for the total amount of ALL kinds of vegetable oil made world-wide per year. It also doesnt have to be as refined as food grade, this would make it cheaper. I think it is around $5-$6/gallon now at your local grociery store.
There are so many ways to make this work to produce a clean & powerful engine - it's not even funny why everyone doesn't look into it.
It just takes people's desire to reduce pollution and improve their lives.
There are so many ways to make this work to produce a clean & powerful engine - it's not even funny why everyone doesn't look into it.
It just takes people's desire to reduce pollution and improve their lives.
03-22-2006, 06:19 PM
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I foud this from a boat conversion kit where the insert the dodge engine:
Length----39" from front pulley to face of bell housing
Length----50" from front crankshaft pulley to turbo piping (over all length)
Width-----with turbo after-cooler-----31 ½"
Front engine mounts ¾" slot width-----17" min. to 28" max.
Rear engine mounts ¾" slot width------23" min. to 27" max.
Center of front mount to center of rear mount----32"
Center of front crankshaft to top of highest point of engine---21 ½"
Highest point of engine to bottom of front engine mounts----25"
http://www.mesamarine.com/6BTconv.html
Length----39" from front pulley to face of bell housing
Length----50" from front crankshaft pulley to turbo piping (over all length)
Width-----with turbo after-cooler-----31 ½"
Front engine mounts ¾" slot width-----17" min. to 28" max.
Rear engine mounts ¾" slot width------23" min. to 27" max.
Center of front mount to center of rear mount----32"
Center of front crankshaft to top of highest point of engine---21 ½"
Highest point of engine to bottom of front engine mounts----25"
http://www.mesamarine.com/6BTconv.html
03-22-2006, 08:06 PM
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http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB..._BIN_Stores_IT
Dry weight is DRY WEIGHT 1150 LBS.
Do you think that might upset the 50/50 ratio of the 944?
Dry weight is DRY WEIGHT 1150 LBS.
Do you think that might upset the 50/50 ratio of the 944?
03-22-2006, 08:17 PM
#14
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944J you will never get that 5.9L into the 944 w/out some very serious modifications. It would really mess up the 50/50 as well. IRC the complete assembled engine on a 944 is about 500lbs with everything bolted on. I may be +/- but 1150 is WAY to high.
You should consider an older MB engine for your project or as others have mentioned a VW.
Michael
944J you will never get that 5.9L into the 944 w/out some very serious modifications. It would really mess up the 50/50 as well. IRC the complete assembled engine on a 944 is about 500lbs with everything bolted on. I may be +/- but 1150 is WAY to high.
You should consider an older MB engine for your project or as others have mentioned a VW.
Michael
03-22-2006, 10:44 PM
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The Cummins is coming up on half the weight of the car. 400 or so lb-ft would also likely ruin your trans. Also, the 944 short block is ~350 lbs, likely an overestimation.
The Audi diesel was designed for a purpose- win at Le Mans. There aren't many diesels over here designed to provide good performance in a sports car. I know nothing about VW TDI engines, but I think that's about all you could reasonably expect to swap into a 944. I'm sure if you could get a European diesel engine over here, there would be more choices.
The Audi diesel was designed for a purpose- win at Le Mans. There aren't many diesels over here designed to provide good performance in a sports car. I know nothing about VW TDI engines, but I think that's about all you could reasonably expect to swap into a 944. I'm sure if you could get a European diesel engine over here, there would be more choices.