Robby

Well, I'm going to throw a wrench into the color thing...

Manuals are lighter, but BARELY! Even I'd rather deal w/the extra weight IF I already had the wiring, etc there FOR the electric version... I'd wager the wiring that runs from the switch to each mirror (wiring in the door), etc, all adds up to weigh more than the motors themselves... I'm pretty sure the 968CS had this wiring too, despite not having motors... I doubt Porsche made dif wiring harness sections, but...

I've always wondered if you could buy manuals & just use your old motors...? I looked pretty carefully when I did my 968 mirror swap & they looked identical... You're wanting the aero mirror retrofit kit- I paid ~$400 at Don Rosen in Philly (one of the cheapest dealers I knew of) but then found they were ~$325 at Sunset- this was several years ago- I soon converted... The retrofit kit came in both manual & electric I think & manual was $50 - $75 less. But what Tifo says, about the internals being different- not sure if this would screw things up or not...???

968 handles... You can save $15 total by reusing your old trigger latch pieces, although many like the 968 ones better. Also, there's a part that connects to the trigger, inside the door... This, evidently, is the hardest part to change out... Although my locks have never worked right since my home-install, I opted to just dremel to fit the piece I'm talking about- had nothing to do w/my lock probs... BTW, you reuse your old lock tumblers... They're ~$300/ea + rekeying, etc... Sunset has a part's list- I think it's Jeff... great to deal with too... Keith Foster's write-up is a must-have for this... I'd be glad to help in any way I could w/the trigger connector part I'm talking about- if you have a Dremel, it can save you ~$30 total... The backside of the 944 handle is a thinner piece where this connector fits in place & you have to either switch out the whole thing, or, just dremel a little metal away from the new handles... Best done BEFORE painting- it keeps you from having to do something inside the door that I never had to deal with... Evidently it's a PITFA & is supposed to be the toughest part of it all... Well, if it was, then, I'm GLAD I skipped it...

IF I had it to do over again though, I might just have my stock handles painted body color... I've always wondered if a good bodywork guy MIGHT be able to do this w/out removing tumbler, wich would keep you from having to pull them apart... That's what caused my prob. I've seen pics of several cars w/painted 944 handles & it looks really nice IMO- the Porsche script, etc... Saves you ~$200... PLUS, 944 handles are a hair lighter too... this can make up the dif of sticking w/electric mirrors...

tifosiman

The swap to 968 manual mirrors saved somewhere around 7-8 lbs, IIRC, compared to the original flags. Don't forget there is a bunch of wiring, the switches, etc, on top of the weight of the electric motors. All of that came out. The flag mirror housings themselves alone weigh more than the 968 mirror housings.

The 968 CS did not have the wiring for the mirrors unless someone optioned them in. A bare bones 968 CS has a different wiring harness (and battery/alternator) than a 968 CS spec'd with a radio, power mirrors, etc.

It was a no brainer for me to go to the manual mirrors. It fit with my "theme", and once my mirrors are set in the position I like them, they never get moved again. And the car is not driven in cold weather so the defrost option loss on the mirrors is a moot point for me. The lighter weight was just an added bonus.

Robby

Excellent info... I had no idea... but wait, the wiring I'm talking about is that which runs from the base plate in the door to the switch under the console, etc... Are you sure this wiring was not there? If so, then Porsche would have to have added ALL of the wiring, that which even runs to the fuse box(?) to add optional electric mirrors....? I just assumed Porsche had kept all that stuff in there so as not to have different wiring sections... that's interesting about the battery & alternator... do you know how strong either of these was? I would love to know how much the battery weighed &/or saved... I have no idea about a stock 951 batter- the PO had something in that was too tall & rubbed the hood slightly... I dropped ~100CCA's (I think I'm at ~590) & ~8lbs... I looked at my Mom's Mercedes C230 battery the other night (in the trunk of the car, which I love...) & it was HUGE! Must weigh 50lbs by the looks of it... like a later-model 928 or something...

Anyway, it's always interested me that the 968CS went w/out electric mirrors to save weight while replacing the rear seats w/such thick wood. It's about the same thickness as the 968 Cab rear tray, from what I understand & hjave seen in pics. I've been told the cab's weighs >25lbs- it's like particle-board- it has more parts to it, like the plastic doors, but the wood is bulk of it. The whole rear seat (seat-backs, seat-bottom, shoulder/seat-belts, misc hardware, etc) adds up to ~35lbs.. Always wondered why Porsche didn't just carpet straight over the metal on the CS, w/maybe a thin layer of Dynamat inbetween... I'd like to do that to my car- much like Rich Sandors...

Yes, I thought my swap was worth at least 5lbs- 944 housings are metal vs plastic 968s... The aerodynamic factor's probably even greater... Danno told me once that the flags cost 6 or 7mph at top speed... not sure at what HP level: if it was Turbo, Turbo S, or chipped what-have-you, but removing them altogether was supposedly worth a good bit... So, just changing to aero's helps, as they're a lot more aerodynamic... You know me Tifo... I happy just to lose a couple of pounds. But, factor in better aerodynamics & top it off w/the better looks & it was a win-win situation all the way around... Heated mirrors are neat, but I could easily live w/out them- I think headlight washers are kind of silly- I'm trying to pull the resovoir... Oh yeah... Michael Manning has "Cup" mirrors on his car- say's they're a lot lighter than even 968 mirrors... It's ie has it in his sig I think...

tifosiman

From 968UK:

"The Club Sport was available from Spring 1993.

The price for the CS in 1994 was in the region of £29,975.

The belt service interval in the maintenance book is 48,000 miles but for caution and if the car is being driven hard regularly then some are changed at 36,000 miles.

The weight difference officially is 50kg, down from 1370kg to 1320kg, but sometimes is reported as much as 100kg. The discrepancy lies in where a coupe has full options like most UK models and can therefore be as much as a difference of 100kg, presumably then a fully specified coupe with all the options would be around 1420kg, the coupe Tiptronic is 1430kg so that particular comparison would bring a difference of 110kg.



Production figures as best I can make out are

1993 = 856
1994 = 536
1995 = 531
Total = 1923. This includes LHD and RHD.
The LSD was an option, No. M220

Alternator on the CS was reduced from 1610w to 1260w.
Battery was reduced from 63ah to 50ah.
(Both of these as well as the wiring loom would need to be upgraded if air-con was specified at the time of purchase.)

The MO30 kit was an option and gave the following, stiffer springs, adjustable Koni dampers, stiffer anti roll bars, cross drilled 304mm brake discs with callipers and an option of the 40% Torsen(Torsion Sensing) LSD.

The Club Sport had colour coded Glass Fibre bucket seats as standard.

The CS came in Black, Maritime Blue, Guards Red, Grand Prix White and Speed Yellow.

The red, white or black Club Sport script down the side was standard on the CS but was a no cost option to delete it from the spec.


Only 2 speakers as standard, fitted into the doors.

The Porsche 968 Sport was released in the UK only in January 1994 with the same standard suspension as the Club Sport in fact they where produced on the same assembly line and therefore receive the same chassis number series.

The Sport included, central locking, electric tailgate release, electric windows, electric mirrors, rear seats. Black cloth seats where standard."

In regards to the different wiring loom discussion, I had a long talk with one of the fellows over on the PCGB forum who was attempting to retrofit his 968CS with power mirrors, temp sensor, and defrost. The wiring loom for the mirrors was not there from the factory, he had to source all of that from a donor standard 968. His car was unmolested and he was the second owner. Unless his car was special, this tells me that the wires were not there on the CS cars unless otherwise spec'd.

Robby

That's really cool... Excellent info... I had no idea about the wiring- that surprises me... I'm also surprised that there were that many Club Sports to begin with... I was also about to mention that you left out the optional ZF LSD, but, you list the CS from '93 on & the ZF was only an option (an additional option) in '92... After that, they only had Torsen, & yes, it is T-o-r-s-e-n, although many people say "torsion." I have an SCC article about it somewhere & they say it's name originated from TORque SENsing. Described as being an automatic toque biasing differential... really cool... Danno said he dropped almost 1 full second at WSIR when he replaced his 951's ZF w/a Torsen- I remember him saying that a good bit of that was in just one "S" turn- some technicality of the turn where the Torsen allowed him to power through it much more effectively or something... Garrity Repta used to like ZF better for street & road racing, etc, but he's the only one I've ever heard say that- I haven't driven enough Torsens to honsetly say...

Still, the most amazing thing about the 968CS, is that LSD & M030 suspension were BOTH OPTIONS! This seems unreal to me... can you imagine buying a brand new CS, right off the showroom floor, w/out either of those options???

As for speakers... I thought many of them came w/out any speakers at all...? I've seen at least one w/out front speakers as I had some pics of one w/light-weight door panels like 911RS America's, etc that didn't even have an armrest, pocket, window switches, etc- just one flat panel w/a door pull (usually a strap) & some sort of release latch... I've seen a few 968CS pics w/speakers, so had always wondered if it was just an option, or what- but what you said makes it look like two front speakers were the standard...? I mean, if one didn't get a stereo at all, would one get the speakers & wiring??? That would not make sense... I wonder, if they did sell w/out speakers or any stereo components at all, if they sold the plain door handles w/out any cut-outs, etc, or, if there was a factroy blank adapater plate to cover the hole....?

The 968CS has always been very interesting to me... part of it is the color scheme along w/the Porsche pastel color venture they did w/the 968- some really cool colors, although I'm not sure I could live w/many of them on many fo them, they were cool to look at....

tifosiman

That article is a little misleading in regards to the speakers. It should have said "only two door speakers came standard on CS cars ordered with stereos". Many 968CS cars did not have a stereo system, there is a blank-off plate there where the radio would be (like the 951 Cup cars) and there is no Fuba antenna on the roof. The Antenna on the roof or a hole-plug where one used to be is a cue that the car was spec'd with a radio from the factory. The doors on the radio-less cars have the speaker covers there covering a hole with no speaker, like the 951 Cup cars.

Robby

That makes sense.... except the speaker covers on the door panels on car's w/out radios... I've seen at least one that had full panels & just never had speakers- no grill, nothing, just plain door panel all the way across... Of course, it could have been done after the fact- someone got different panels for it.... Could be a lot of things.. Thanks for the info...