Clint's 944

Hey everyone and thanks for the help so far.

Recently, I experienced what I believed to be a blown headgasket. Classic signs were there, milkshake, overheat and the sudden loss of coolant. I finally got the car towed to my house today and I started looking into it.

When I drained the oil, I was expecting alot of coolant yet none came out. THis had me perplexed as the coolant is gone! So, I thought maybe I didn't see what I thought I saw. I looked into the fill tube and there is some milkshake stuff there?
So, then I thought maybe the head a badly cracked somewhere. I looked around and could not see any sign of hot coolant spraying anywhere. There was a puddle of coolant on the splash guard when I removed it.
So, I put some oil back in the car, filled up the radiator with coolant (burped it) and did a compression check.

Cyl 1 - 210
Cyl 2- 207
Cyl 3 - 208
Cyl 4 - 210
So, the head is good right? So I looked around for a busted hose or a shattered water pump housing. Nope...everything looks good. Oil cooler seals...good.
There was very little coolant in the block and none from the expansion tank to the pump? I added a gallon and a half. No leaks.
So, I started up the car hoping maybe it would do it again. There is a bunch of air in the cooling system, I had to burp it 3 good times and there is still alot of air in there. The engine warmed up, sounded good. No sign of leaks, no hissing or boiling sounds, No signs that anything was ever wrong!! A little gurgling coming from near the front of the head, but I think it's air in the cooling system.

I turned off the car and popped the oil fill cap off. No milkshake, looked at the expansion tank..no oil in there and the level is a little high. I crawl around under the car...nothing. Come back to the top of the car about 5 minutes later....the expansion tank is empty!

So, what the hell is wrong with my car?
What is the milkshake that is apparently not milkshake?
Where did my coolant go that night? and now today?
What else can I check to eliminate?
Will the church think I'm crazy if I request an exorcism for my car?

Thanks for any help!
~Clint
Here are some pics!
Picture 1: No coolant?
Picture 2: This is residual milkshake that I saw that night
Picture 3: There is white powdery dust on the firewall behind the head????
Picture 4: A terrible picture of the oil cooler seals. Dirty with oil from picture 5
Picture 5: argh.. looks like a bad front seal.

PorscheDoc

Um wow, holy high compression batman!

PorscheDoc

And can you find out if there is a "group rate" on exorcisms?

formerGMguy

Could this be a leaking oil cooler? I've heard stories that its a common failure and that it lets oil and coolant mix....

Travis - sflraver

Um... oil/coolant separator seals in conjunction with a bad heater core that is draining the coolant into the floor of your car under the carpet and running out the back drains under acceleration???

Hey.. it could happen...

Clint's 944

You think? I figured it was just "good" compression. Aren't all S2's supposed to be from 200 to 215?

Clint's 944

At this point...plausible!

PorscheDoc

Ah didnt see the S2, that could be....

Bri Bro

Are you seeing a white vapor from the exhaust? If so, you are sucking the fluid out the exhaust due to a hole in the head gasket between a water port and the cylinder. If you pull the plugs, the one that looks spot clean is where the leak is.

User 41221

I'd look into borrowing a coolant system pressure tester. Start by filling up the coolant tank and then pressurize the system to approx 15lbs, and crack the bleed screw until you aren't spitting air. Close the bleed screw, make sure you still have enough coolant in teh expansion tank, and then pump it back up to 15lbs. I'm betting on either a leaking hose/heater core leak or else possible a bad radiator cap. The condensation in the oil fill didn't look that extreme to me, and if you didn't see massive plumes of white smoke out the tailpipe, most likely your headgasket is fine.

Regards,

Granite 944

NO MILKSHAKE! BE HAPPY!

Now! Ya got to find out WHERE that coolant went to, outta the blue like that.

Ya got pretty anxious on that previous posting huh? I thought there was a lot of unanswered questions there. Some of those questions, are just now coming together, to make a picture. Keep us informed as to what your doing, and see.

"So, the head is good right?"

Not necessarily, but it sure wouldn't be my first thought that its bad, either.

You can lose coolant from many places, and never notice an "obvious" leak ESPECIALLY, when your running down the road, and engine is good and warm, which is when you can lose that coolant the quickest.

The chip you installed, may just be a coincendece, and may NOT be any more than a kinda "thing". Don't ASSUME any"thing". Leaks, and "things" can, and generally DO happen, all of a sudden, without warning (just the nature of the beast).

My suggestions (for all its worth, even on an S2), would be....

#1: DON'T PANIC! It aint no big deal, you'll find it, IF, you proceed slowly, methodically, and logically. It MAY take a while, but you WILL find it.

#2: Pressure tester. Do you have one, can you borrow one, STEAL ONE?
Cold pressure tests are one thing. HOT pressure tests are ANOTHER. Do both.
Test the Cap also! Sometimes, pressure from tester left overnight, will reveal "the leak".

#3: "Will the church think I'm crazy if I request an exorcism for my car?"
Probably not.......but the rest of us here at Rennlist, SURE won't think you are!


Regarding the head gasket. With those readings of compression, it would make me want to look other places FIRST. If you could look inside each cyl. with a borescope after a good, hot running and cool down, and you just might get another "clue" as to IF it may be the head gasket. I know thats happening to me right now. Yeah. I HAVE a coolant pressure tester, and borescope. I've chased, for a while too. ( I may still be chasing after this too......NOT!)

Good luck! I'm gonna be replacing the head gasket on my '83 next week, considering what I just said in the previous paragraph, and many other considerations.

DoYouSmellGas?

My 8-valve blew its head gasket into one of the cylinders. Same symptoms. You should get huge, huge plumes of white steam in your exhaust while driving (engine under load), and possibly brownish, dirty looking coolant from exhaust gasses getting injected into the cooling system. I did. The "mayonaise" in the oil filler isn't that unusual - water vapor tends to collect around there and emulsify the oil. It's normal to see a little mayo around the filler tube. I wouldn't read too much into the compression numbers. They're consistent across all 4 cylinders so that's a good sign. Different gauges have different amounts of absolute accuracy - a cylinder that puts 205lbs on your gauge might put 215 on someone else's. The troubleshooting ideas are sound. Compression test the cooling system and go from there.

Clint's 944

OK, an update....

I haven't pressure tested the system yet as I was doing some other needed items...I needed to retension the balance belt and replace the chain tensioner pad before it got too cold.

I checked all over again for loeaks and continued to burp the system...still no luck. Then I noticed something else. NO HEAT. So, a quick check on Clarks Garage and I decided to take the car for a quick spin to some air to purge. Sure enough, got it up to speed and the heat came back. So, I went to stop and the heat went away. I ran out to turn the vent screw and low and behold...coolant flowing everywhere under the car. I checked under the hood real quick and the coolant is flowing out the overflow tube. It almost drained the expansion tank....IS THIS MY SUDDEN LOOS OF COOLANT?

I think the radiator cap is bad, because I could hear it sucking in air.

OK, could this be the problem...?
The radiator cap allowing air in the system which is accumalating in the heater core. When I am driving the car the fluid pressure is building up against the air in the heater core. At idle the pressure is "back flowing" the coolant out of the overflow tube.

So, do you think the pressure test would force the air out of the heater core? Never used one before...

~Clint

Porsche-O-Phile

Possible oil cooler seals.

Clint's 944

Finally found the problem....

Bad Radiator cap and a bad radiator that is leaking from the top of both sides....

Milkshake in the oil filler tube is just excess moisture.

Thanks guys for your help, I should have pressure tested the radiator first. Oh well...

~Clint