Possible spec car for me...Opinions?
10-20-2005, 03:55 AM
#16
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Originally Posted by Serge944
Don't let it go for 1000 - thats insulting yourself, especially since youve put some work into it. Plenty of 1000 dollar 944s out there, but none current on maintenance. Just finish carpeting the interior and it shouldn't be a problem fetching a lot more.
I'd let it go to a rennlister for 1000, someone who would take care of it and 'finish' it. We'll see what happens.
10-20-2005, 12:00 PM
#18
Race Director
Originally Posted by Porschephile 924
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...tem=4583853086
I'm the current high-bidder... would need a little work, the guy says it's a head gasket, I beleive it's the oil cooler seals. Lemme know your opinions.
I'm the current high-bidder... would need a little work, the guy says it's a head gasket, I beleive it's the oil cooler seals. Lemme know your opinions.
Well,
Here is my views on spec car potential.
1) No sunroof = Nice definite benefit.
2) Oil & Coolant = cooler seals probalby right.
3) body rust. Well if it is surface the door and couple outer panels. No big deal.
So I have to think it is not that bad. Project car no doubt, but not bad.
Lets see wheels are worth $200. Even the engine core (block, crank pistons, head) all in need of rebuild is worth $500. So just there is $700.
If I was looking for a spec car I would definitely look at this car. I probably would want to look at it to check out rust. If it is just surface stuff then you can sand and prime and forget about it. The door ding can be fixed. It does not need to be a "pretty" fix either. Just enough so that it stops the rust and does not look really bad (for a track car).
Engine will need oil cooler seals at least. Possibly a new headgasket and most likly a clutch. With exception of the clutch all of that is cheap parts (and time on labor). You probably will want to do the rod bearings too. If you plan on doing the headgasket, clutch, & rod bearings you should pull the motor and do all the bearings and waterpump and all seals. Parts will run about $1500 including the clutch and simple (stock) headwork, but then you will not need to touch the motor for the next 2-3 years. The only way you can make a "cheap" spec car is by doing all the work yourself. It is possible to have "backyard special" win races in this class.
So for lets sat $2500 you can have 944 with fresh motor & clucth, non sun roof and pack the steering rack with grease with no power. Not a bad start for a spec car. Really it sounds odd, but you could but a $3000 car and still not have as much since you won't have piece of mind of rebuilt motor. The ONLY issue with that one is rust. If it just surface which I bet it is then you are ok.
PS one nice thing about pulling the motor is you can save a bit more weight by easily pulling all the heat shielding from the fire wall.
10-20-2005, 12:26 PM
#20
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Originally Posted by M758
Well,
Here is my views on spec car potential.
1) No sunroof = Nice definite benefit.
2) Oil & Coolant = cooler seals probalby right.
3) body rust. Well if it is surface the door and couple outer panels. No big deal.
So I have to think it is not that bad. Project car no doubt, but not bad.
Lets see wheels are worth $200. Even the engine core (block, crank pistons, head) all in need of rebuild is worth $500. So just there is $700.
If I was looking for a spec car I would definitely look at this car. I probably would want to look at it to check out rust. If it is just surface stuff then you can sand and prime and forget about it. The door ding can be fixed. It does not need to be a "pretty" fix either. Just enough so that it stops the rust and does not look really bad (for a track car).
Engine will need oil cooler seals at least. Possibly a new headgasket and most likly a clutch. With exception of the clutch all of that is cheap parts (and time on labor). You probably will want to do the rod bearings too. If you plan on doing the headgasket, clutch, & rod bearings you should pull the motor and do all the bearings and waterpump and all seals. Parts will run about $1500 including the clutch and simple (stock) headwork, but then you will not need to touch the motor for the next 2-3 years. The only way you can make a "cheap" spec car is by doing all the work yourself. It is possible to have "backyard special" win races in this class.
So for lets sat $2500 you can have 944 with fresh motor & clucth, non sun roof and pack the steering rack with grease with no power. Not a bad start for a spec car. Really it sounds odd, but you could but a $3000 car and still not have as much since you won't have piece of mind of rebuilt motor. The ONLY issue with that one is rust. If it just surface which I bet it is then you are ok.
PS one nice thing about pulling the motor is you can save a bit more weight by easily pulling all the heat shielding from the fire wall.
Here is my views on spec car potential.
1) No sunroof = Nice definite benefit.
2) Oil & Coolant = cooler seals probalby right.
3) body rust. Well if it is surface the door and couple outer panels. No big deal.
So I have to think it is not that bad. Project car no doubt, but not bad.
Lets see wheels are worth $200. Even the engine core (block, crank pistons, head) all in need of rebuild is worth $500. So just there is $700.
If I was looking for a spec car I would definitely look at this car. I probably would want to look at it to check out rust. If it is just surface stuff then you can sand and prime and forget about it. The door ding can be fixed. It does not need to be a "pretty" fix either. Just enough so that it stops the rust and does not look really bad (for a track car).
Engine will need oil cooler seals at least. Possibly a new headgasket and most likly a clutch. With exception of the clutch all of that is cheap parts (and time on labor). You probably will want to do the rod bearings too. If you plan on doing the headgasket, clutch, & rod bearings you should pull the motor and do all the bearings and waterpump and all seals. Parts will run about $1500 including the clutch and simple (stock) headwork, but then you will not need to touch the motor for the next 2-3 years. The only way you can make a "cheap" spec car is by doing all the work yourself. It is possible to have "backyard special" win races in this class.
So for lets sat $2500 you can have 944 with fresh motor & clucth, non sun roof and pack the steering rack with grease with no power. Not a bad start for a spec car. Really it sounds odd, but you could but a $3000 car and still not have as much since you won't have piece of mind of rebuilt motor. The ONLY issue with that one is rust. If it just surface which I bet it is then you are ok.
PS one nice thing about pulling the motor is you can save a bit more weight by easily pulling all the heat shielding from the fire wall.
But, there are some problems here with this idea.
1. I bet the buy it now is the same as the min bid. That means there is no hope to get into the car for any less than $1K.
2. No offense meant here Geoff, but for some reason I don't think you could do the work yourself that is discussed above. You would have to farm it out (at least a lot of it) to a mech which is going to make this expensive, which leads to #3...
3. If you are down on your luck and had to scrounge the money for just the tires for your street car, why are you even contemplating buying a race car project and going down that path right now? Why not use the car you have and do some DE's and Autox events, and when you feel comfortable with your driving skills and are a little more financially stable, start down that slippery slope of having a spec car.
All of the above is constructive advice from someone who has been around the block a few times, it was not meant to be interpreted as being mean. So don't send me another one of your nasty PM's, I won't stand for it this time.
10-20-2005, 12:32 PM
#21
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Tifo, that's true, I'm not going to jump on it if it goes over $500.00
as for your second point, I'm assuming you do not know my wrenching background. I built the engine that powers my 924S by hand, installed it, I did all of the suspension work (minus alignment) myself. I do timing belts, and any work on the car, so I have labor and maintinance covered
The reason I'm contemplating a spec car, is I have until spring, so it will (kinda) not be a hurried project. I already own spare bearings and seals for EVERYWHERE on these engines, and the car comes with spare belts and a head gasket. I have done plenty of DE's and AutoX's. I love them, and there is a DE this weekend, an AutoX next weekend, and then, from the 2nd' to the 6th, I'm gonna be at the track because their free days are up. I'm very comfortable with my driving skills.
I appreciate the constructive advice, but I'm not a newbie into the Porsche world.I beleive I can handle it.
as for your second point, I'm assuming you do not know my wrenching background. I built the engine that powers my 924S by hand, installed it, I did all of the suspension work (minus alignment) myself. I do timing belts, and any work on the car, so I have labor and maintinance covered
The reason I'm contemplating a spec car, is I have until spring, so it will (kinda) not be a hurried project. I already own spare bearings and seals for EVERYWHERE on these engines, and the car comes with spare belts and a head gasket. I have done plenty of DE's and AutoX's. I love them, and there is a DE this weekend, an AutoX next weekend, and then, from the 2nd' to the 6th, I'm gonna be at the track because their free days are up. I'm very comfortable with my driving skills.
I appreciate the constructive advice, but I'm not a newbie into the Porsche world.I beleive I can handle it.
10-20-2005, 12:35 PM
#22
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True, I do not know your mechanical prowess. But your commentary in that thread about not being able to cut the small amount of metal it took to mount that 931 header panel made me infer that rebuilding a car and making a spec car out of it would be out of your league, if left to do the work on your own. If I was wrong, then I am sorry.
10-20-2005, 12:39 PM
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Yeah, it's not so much that I couldn't cut it, it's that I wouldn't... my 924S is my baby, I wasn't in the mood to cut it up, even if it was the apendix of the car... unles it's cancerous, it stays.
10-20-2005, 12:40 PM
#24
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Geoff,
You will need about 6k at the ready to build yourself a spec car. This assumes you do all the work (except cage) your self.
Figure it like this
Base car $2500 (either $1000 + 1500 work or just $2500)
Seat = 500
Harness = 100
Kill switch = 50
tires = 600
cage = $1000 to 2000
brakes pads = $200
brake rotors = $100
Spec Suspension package = $2000
Total = $7050 to $8000
Now to be properly competitive you need at least two sets of wheels tires. So figure another $800.
The you need to add race suit $500.
Now to do all the work you need tools. Not sure if you have full set, but add in lets say $500 for tools.
So 944 spec racing is cheap for a racing class, but no racing is really cheap. It takes time and money. The one nice thing is that it is hard to race a car wheel to wheel have have the equipment to win all for just 8k. Even in spec miata 8k will get you in the field, but not close to the front. In 944 spec 8k can get a car just like the front runners and at the front if the driver can make it happen.
You will need about 6k at the ready to build yourself a spec car. This assumes you do all the work (except cage) your self.
Figure it like this
Base car $2500 (either $1000 + 1500 work or just $2500)
Seat = 500
Harness = 100
Kill switch = 50
tires = 600
cage = $1000 to 2000
brakes pads = $200
brake rotors = $100
Spec Suspension package = $2000
Total = $7050 to $8000
Now to be properly competitive you need at least two sets of wheels tires. So figure another $800.
The you need to add race suit $500.
Now to do all the work you need tools. Not sure if you have full set, but add in lets say $500 for tools.
So 944 spec racing is cheap for a racing class, but no racing is really cheap. It takes time and money. The one nice thing is that it is hard to race a car wheel to wheel have have the equipment to win all for just 8k. Even in spec miata 8k will get you in the field, but not close to the front. In 944 spec 8k can get a car just like the front runners and at the front if the driver can make it happen.
10-20-2005, 12:45 PM
#25
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Originally Posted by tifosiman
True, I do not know your mechanical prowess. But your commentary in that thread about not being able to cut the small amount of metal it took to mount that 931 header panel made me infer that rebuilding a car and making a spec car out of it would be out of your league, if left to do the work on your own. If I was wrong, then I am sorry.
Tifo,
In Geoff's defense. I am not a body many and would not hack up my 951 for a ventened panel. I'd want it done right and would pay some one for that.
I however did all the work on my 944 spec car and unfortinalty I am was forced to learn to do some body work now. My goal with this work is learn and make it "close enough". I really don't car if it does not come out perfect.
Just because you don't want to do body work on a "nice" car does not mean you can't do a bondo special on door or rebuild a race car as simple as a 944 spec.
10-20-2005, 12:47 PM
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Oh yeah, I'm expecting the price to be up there. We have a spare Corbeau seat at home, so that's covered, about every tool necessary to do anything to the car. pads and rotors, tires, kill switch and suspension would come as I earn the money.
As for the cage, must it be a name brand cage, or could I weld up a personal type thing? I have plenty of friends who are welders who could help me out there.
I figured the cost would be up around there, and it's something I'd put the money into.
As for the cage, must it be a name brand cage, or could I weld up a personal type thing? I have plenty of friends who are welders who could help me out there.
I figured the cost would be up around there, and it's something I'd put the money into.
10-20-2005, 12:50 PM
#29
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For 2006 all car require a kill switch.
As for the cage. It need not be a certain one. Any legal cage (per NASA cage rules) is fine. There are couple things to read in the 944 spec rules about the cage, but they are detail things.
I would however have an experineced welder perferably with cage experience do the cage. Reason is that a poorly done cage is false safety and the main reason for a cage is to keep yourself safe if the **** ever hits the fan. You should check into the racer forum here about cages. Lots of good information there.
As for the cage. It need not be a certain one. Any legal cage (per NASA cage rules) is fine. There are couple things to read in the 944 spec rules about the cage, but they are detail things.
I would however have an experineced welder perferably with cage experience do the cage. Reason is that a poorly done cage is false safety and the main reason for a cage is to keep yourself safe if the **** ever hits the fan. You should check into the racer forum here about cages. Lots of good information there.