umfan866

Hi.

For the last 19 years I have had a BMW 1986 325e. I love the
handling / suspension and recently I have started getting into some performance mods (e.g. ECU chip), lowering springs, Bilsteinshocks, etc.

Since my car is old and something new fails every month, my BMW E30
friends are encouraging me to sell my car (and parts car, I actually have
2) and buy a fresher example with more power (e.g. a 1990 325is) and
then start putting my mods there on a carwith no rust -mods such as short shiftrer, true lowering springs (IE stage 3 or H&R Race) etc. Now I have
driven some of my friends's E30's with Ground Control Coilovers and let
me just say that I could not believe how similar that felt to when I test
drove several 80's 911's a while back. The major difference was that in
the 911 you heard the engine screaming behind you, but I could not believe
how simlar the feel was of a decked-out e30 with coilovers to a Porsche 911.

So I am surfing the BMW used car listings and finding that used E30s in
decent shape are around 2,000-3,000 for a clean car, and say another
1,000 or 1,500 or so for the mods (eg nice rim, springs/shocks). So let's
call it 4k. Now when I look at the price of 944's locally, I am finding that
they also go for like 3,000 - 4,000 for decent ones, and less if you want
to buy one with major work. So I am wondering....am I better off getting
a 944 now, transitioning from BMWs to Porsches, and then later stepping
up to the 911 line (I would prefer a 911, but I can't afford 10k for 19081 SC that will have lots of repairs) -- or just stick with BMWs for now? What advantages do 944's have over 911s if I go with a 944?

Has anyone had (or have) a BMW 3-series (E30, or E36, E46) and can comment
on how it compares to a 944 in feel and handling? My friend who owns an E46
says he used to own a 944 Turbo and it was incredible, he just got too many speeding tickets, so he sold it. I keep reading good things about older 944's in Excellence and other places....BTW for me the 924 is too much VW, and the 944 Turbo is too much maintenance and initial cost- if I go for a 944 I would concentrate on like an 86 944 in Red with Black Interior...

Interested in hearing you guys' thoughts. Also, is there a strong group of 944'ers in the Bay Area that have meets, do DIY things together, etc. People can make all the difference in this equasion too....

Thanks in Advance...

hammerwerfer

I have been a BMW fanatic for years and have owned a fair variety. I was looking for a good E30 M3 but the prices have really gone up for good examples now. I owned one new in 1988 and a Sport Evo a few years ago. The sport Evo in particular was a fantastic car. The only other car I would consider in this price range is the 944.

I'm a fan of naturally aspirated cars, decided to get the 951 because of the ease and affordability in extracting more power should I desire to upgrade.

I would only really compare the M cars with a 944, and the older E30 examples are the closest in comparison. The E36 in ROW trim is a great car, but the USA version would leave me cold.

My solution for you, should your budget allow would be to find yourself a 944 turbo. If you can't swing that, the 944 S2 is a great value as well. You will end up with a real sports car for much less than the cost of getting a pukka E30 M3 car. Sure, it will be more than you would spnd on an E30, but the driving experience will be far better.

TrevorW

I've had two 944 and currently drive an E36 325is. I think an ideal daily driver would be a well sorted bimmer with a moderate suspension package and all the other luxuries that this car offers. With that said I still lust for a perfect 944 everyday. Good luck, you must have some attachment to your car after driving it for 19 years.

joseph mitro

i had a 91 325i automatic with heavy 17" wheels, so i can't comment much on the performance comparison.

in terms of reliability and maintenance costs, however, my two bimmers have beat my three 944s in every way possible.

oh yeah, i wouldn't compare a later model bmw to earlier 944, although i do think the E36 handles quite well right off the lot. but then the 944 does too.

MPD47

I havent driven an NA to any extent other than a quick lap in Scott's (Scootin) car so I cant really compare. But stock 951 vs. e30 325is, the e30 is alot more tossable, I really love the way it feels. Not sure what I'd end up chosing overall. I suppose if I could have an e30 m3 with the S54 M3 engine (sacralidge I know) I'd be happy, and would consider that over my 951.

Legoland951

BTW, I had an e30 M3 and I wouldn't take one over the 951 personally. They are great cars and lots of fun but that 4 cylinder engine in stock form is impressive but not that impressive.

E30s are great cars. A heavily modded 1989 325IX did fractions of a second better than my stock 84 with koni/250lb springs and turbo sway bars at Willow Springs big track. I would say the 325IS would be very comparable to the 944 in competitive driving. Every day wise, the e30 has more room and you are sitting more upright with your legs more underneath you than out in front of you. I remember the euro 83 323I I had in 92 and that thing felt faster than the 325I so if I were in the market, I probably try to find one of those. They have much smoother engines due to the inline 6 compared to the 4 cyl. The guibo in the driveshaft and u-joints are the equivalent to the rubber donut in the clutch of the 944. They always go out though its nowhere near as expensive to buy and replace as the 944 clutch. The power window switches also are problematic. Sunroof motors get weak and sometimes they don't open and shut very willingly. Last thing I remember is if you break a timing belt in those engines, pieces of the head gets broken along with the valve train from what I have seen. Those heads cost more than the 944 n/a heads from what I can see. Change your timing belt. Otherwise, I can't think of too much else that goes out regularly on those cars.

MPD47

That's why I said S54, not S14

JM993

As the owner of 3 E30s, most recently (and probably forever) an E30 M3 2.5 EVO III clone I guess I'm qualified to speak up. My two other e30s were both 325is - one manual and one auto.

The M3, especially in 2.5 form, is a pretty fast car - comparably to a stock 951 (w/o the tubo lag) or an e36 m3. In stock US 2.3 form, the car is more comparable to a 944S or S2. As far as handling and feel goes, the M3 is amazing - head and shoulders above ANY BMW past or present and likely on at least on par with the 944. Simply put, it's a special and rare car and the one BMW that could pass for a Porsche. However, like a Porsche, while well made, it can be expensive to maintain. Also a good M3 is significantly more expensive than most 944 variants and even most 968s.

The 325is is a great car also. They are super reliable and easy to work on. Timing belt changes are a breeze. Parts are cheap. I didn't even hestiate taking my then 212000 mile 325is across country and then subsequently selling it to a family member (who still has it). Of all the cars mentioned, this is the most practical. Also, a 325is is significantly faster than a base 944 (about the same as a 944s). Handling is very good - just not to the degree of the M3.

IMHO the E30s are the best BMWs. You can't go wrong with any of them.

HTH,
Joe

1995 Porsche 993
1988 BMW E30 M3 2.5 (240HP) daily driver

944kid

Most definitely go for a 944, but be open! IMO, Guards Red(which I'm confident you mean) is a great colour, and there certainly doesn't seem to be a shortage of them, but I hope if you see a 944 in good condition you aren't deterred by the color. Not that my opinion has much weight, I don't own a 944. But I will soon ...as my parents let me.

joseph mitro

you have a 240 hp e30 M3 evo clone? i will be eternally envious. i'd love to have that car. do you drive it on the track also? i'm sure that's where it really shines.

Serge944

You think an aging BMW is a headache? You're going to be in a world of pain if you decide to purchase a 944. There are many exceptions, but 944s are not only require more maintenance but parts are much more expensive. For example, a new e30 water pump is somewhere near $50. The same part for the 944 is 150+.

The e30 BMWs are great cars - definitely try to find a low mileage i or is.

ninefiveone

I've spent a good amount of time with a cherry E30 M3 and a few E36 M3's.

In equal condition, I'd take either M3 over a 944N/A any day. The E30 M3 is just such a great light car. The E36 M3 is the perfect daily driver as far as I'm concerned. Just the right amount of power, perfect balance of ride and handling, all the modern amenities.

Non M3 variants of either and it's a toss up against the 944. Total personal preference at that point, as far as I'm concerned.

When you're talking about ~20 year old cars... I fail to see how the maintenance arguments apply. It's significantly more about what kind of care the car's seen before you got your hands on it.

You'll find plenty of people who say that 951's are unreliable or finnicky. I've had mine for 5 years, beat the hell out of on the track every year, and that car has been rock solid. Mine was well cared for before I got it and I continue to care for it well. Others I've seen that have clearly lived tough lives and they break about as often as you'd expect.

JM993

Yep, just recently finished the restoration (except paint) a six months ago. I basically bought a straight $6K car and turned it into a $22K car. The car surprises me with it's power and handling. While it's no match for my 993, it's relatively fast and the handling is sublime (and idiot proof) except in the rain I'm not sure I'll track it - the engine cost $12K to rebuild (mostly parts) - but I do drive it hard and often.

Here's a link to pics of the car if anyone is interested.

http://www.s14.net/photopost/showgal...500&ppuser=494

Oh, and it's a lot easier to work on than my 993......

Cheers,
Joe

1995 Porsche 993
1988 BMW E30 M3 2.5 (240HP) daily driver

umfan866

Cool! Well sounds like overall the consensus is for now to stick with E30s for now --in my case esp since I am just starting to learn mechanicals and repairs, and I am on a tight budget. Today I just looked at a low-mileage (107k) 1991 325i for $2,500. Dang recently there was a local E30 M3 for sale in good condition for only 7k -should have driven it at least! Ok well keep your thoughts coming...Thks Marvin

joseph mitro

that's a beautiful car. did you start with a US-spec engine? and if so, how much modification was required to turn it into an evo-spec engine?