944 vs BMW 325 E30 ...differences in driving?
09-12-2005, 03:09 PM
#16
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Stay clear of "cheap" e30 m3s. They are pretty exclusive so used parts are incredibly hard to find and new parts are very expensive. Also, due to the high strung s14 motor, it isnt as reliable as the m10 and m20 motors found in other e30s.
Once you put emotions aside, the e36 m3 is a much better purchase for about the same money.
Once you put emotions aside, the e36 m3 is a much better purchase for about the same money.
09-12-2005, 07:24 PM
#17
Originally Posted by joseph mitro
that's a beautiful car. did you start with a US-spec engine? and if so, how much modification was required to turn it into an evo-spec engine?
The 2.5 makes this car a nice daily driver. - much more torque. On par with an E36 M3 and definitely faster than my GF's 328is. I'm really happy with it
Joe
1995 Porsche 993
1988 BMW E30 M3 2.5 (240HP) daily driver
09-12-2005, 08:43 PM
#18
Thinking outside da' bun...
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My E30 IX is slower than dog crap. I cant imagine any car, let alone a 944, not being a more visceral driving car. I love the car, great highway hauler, but fast it is not. I wouldnt even call it spunky. More like a mtn goat. I drove an E30 325I 5spd 4dr several years ago and didnt think it was worth two ****s in the quicks dept either. 
09-12-2005, 09:45 PM
#19
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To a lot of people, tasting a Pinot versus a Cabernet doesn't really show much difference. However, if you have a pulse and your senses are "above room temperature" most people can tell the difference in the finer things, like the ability of a 944 to carve up the countryside better than just about anything else on the highway. A BMW, sheesh, make me laugh.
P
P
09-13-2005, 12:27 AM
#22
Thinking outside da' bun...
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i think it was "when the turbo spins, the bull**** ends".
09-13-2005, 04:22 AM
#23
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[QUOTE=jmarch]
The 2.5 makes this car a nice daily driver. - much more torque. On par with an E36 M3 and definitely faster than my GF's 328is. I'm really happy with it
I loved my Sport Evolution. Funny thing though, I would say that the lack of torque was the main thing I would notice. Unless I was quick to drop down a couple gears when baulked, the little diesels would walk away on the way up to cruising speed. And the funny thing now is that the top end of the little diesels was damn near that of the M3 as well. One really has to work the gearbox to progress, even with the 2.5.
Having said that, it is a fantastic car and the handling contributes an awful lot to the experience. They are still holding their own in the VLN with huge numbers still in the starting grid. It will eat any NA 944 and dispatch stock 951s with ease. Of course it will cost at least 3X the price of a good 951!
I keep forgetting that you lads didn't get the real E36 M3...much less tossable but way faster!
The 2.5 makes this car a nice daily driver. - much more torque. On par with an E36 M3 and definitely faster than my GF's 328is. I'm really happy with it
I loved my Sport Evolution. Funny thing though, I would say that the lack of torque was the main thing I would notice. Unless I was quick to drop down a couple gears when baulked, the little diesels would walk away on the way up to cruising speed. And the funny thing now is that the top end of the little diesels was damn near that of the M3 as well. One really has to work the gearbox to progress, even with the 2.5.
Having said that, it is a fantastic car and the handling contributes an awful lot to the experience. They are still holding their own in the VLN with huge numbers still in the starting grid. It will eat any NA 944 and dispatch stock 951s with ease. Of course it will cost at least 3X the price of a good 951!
I keep forgetting that you lads didn't get the real E36 M3...much less tossable but way faster!
09-13-2005, 04:41 AM
#24
[QUOTE=hammerwerfer]
Originally Posted by jmarch
The 2.5 makes this car a nice daily driver. - much more torque. On par with an E36 M3 and definitely faster than my GF's 328is. I'm really happy with it
I loved my Sport Evolution. Funny thing though, I would say that the lack of torque was the main thing I would notice. Unless I was quick to drop down a couple gears when baulked, the little diesels would walk away on the way up to cruising speed. And the funny thing now is that the top end of the little diesels was damn near that of the M3 as well. One really has to work the gearbox to progress, even with the 2.5.
Having said that, it is a fantastic car and the handling contributes an awful lot to the experience. They are still holding their own in the VLN with huge numbers still in the starting grid. It will eat any NA 944 and dispatch stock 951s with ease. Of course it will cost at least 3X the price of a good 951!
I keep forgetting that you lads didn't get the real E36 M3...much less tossable but way faster!
I loved my Sport Evolution. Funny thing though, I would say that the lack of torque was the main thing I would notice. Unless I was quick to drop down a couple gears when baulked, the little diesels would walk away on the way up to cruising speed. And the funny thing now is that the top end of the little diesels was damn near that of the M3 as well. One really has to work the gearbox to progress, even with the 2.5.
Having said that, it is a fantastic car and the handling contributes an awful lot to the experience. They are still holding their own in the VLN with huge numbers still in the starting grid. It will eat any NA 944 and dispatch stock 951s with ease. Of course it will cost at least 3X the price of a good 951!
I keep forgetting that you lads didn't get the real E36 M3...much less tossable but way faster!
09-13-2005, 04:46 AM
#25
The Hoffinator
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i currently have a e30 85 325E auto as a daily driver, and frequently get to borrow my dads 5 speed 86 325I. both are coupes, but his is plane jane interior and mine has the sports steering wheel and sports seats which i really like better.. in the end though his 5 speed is more fun to drive, and is a bit quicker. while its a bit quicker, its not much quicker. the 5 speed definitly helps though in the fun dept. I really like driving both cars, howeveri agree with udpride. they are really not that fast at all. my 912 is definitly faster than my E, and would have a good chance of beating the I. while i love my 912, even i have to admit that its pretty bad when a 912 is faster.
i do like that the e30 is a nice driver, its not too mundane, its definitly more comfortable, and you do have a good sense of feel with it -definitly an intuitive car compared to many others out there. it is what it was meant to be -a cross between a sports car and a family coupe/sedan etc.. (depending on which flavor you bought), but you can tell its not a sports car, its a sporty car, but not a full out sports car. once you get into the M sector, you can call it a sports car.
i have only driven a few 944s. the 944 is definitly a sports car in every sense of the word, and has a better set up, even in the vanilla NA model. the only thing i really like better is the seating postiion in the bmw, especially with the sport seats. while the 944 has a better center of gravity seating wise (well everything wise as well), to me, the e30 feels perfect.. the seating position isnt too low (im short), and the arm and feet position is like a glove. while ive only driven a few 944s only a few times.. thats one of the 1st things you notice when you get it, and comfort is a big thing period -you cant drive with confidence unless you feel comfortabel in the seat (and im not talking about how comfy the padding is, but the postion!). thats not to say i dont like the way a 944 feels in the seat -i just feel like i cant see over the wheel. but driving wise, the 44 is definitly more fun. fun doesnt necessarly equate to fast either, but the whole package -speed, handling, nimbleness etc.
over all though, i woudlnt want a 944 as a daily driver personally, but thats just me. sports cars require constant up keep and maintenence, especially 20 year old sports cars (and if you think thats bad, try a 40 year old sports car like my 912!!). the bmw, while sporty, isnt a sports car, and doesnt require as much up keep. *then again how much up keep is relative to how the car was kept, maintained and driven in the past.
thats just my 2 cents. my next daily driver will either be a newer bmw, or an a4.
i do like that the e30 is a nice driver, its not too mundane, its definitly more comfortable, and you do have a good sense of feel with it -definitly an intuitive car compared to many others out there. it is what it was meant to be -a cross between a sports car and a family coupe/sedan etc.. (depending on which flavor you bought), but you can tell its not a sports car, its a sporty car, but not a full out sports car. once you get into the M sector, you can call it a sports car.
i have only driven a few 944s. the 944 is definitly a sports car in every sense of the word, and has a better set up, even in the vanilla NA model. the only thing i really like better is the seating postiion in the bmw, especially with the sport seats. while the 944 has a better center of gravity seating wise (well everything wise as well), to me, the e30 feels perfect.. the seating position isnt too low (im short), and the arm and feet position is like a glove. while ive only driven a few 944s only a few times.. thats one of the 1st things you notice when you get it, and comfort is a big thing period -you cant drive with confidence unless you feel comfortabel in the seat (and im not talking about how comfy the padding is, but the postion!). thats not to say i dont like the way a 944 feels in the seat -i just feel like i cant see over the wheel. but driving wise, the 44 is definitly more fun. fun doesnt necessarly equate to fast either, but the whole package -speed, handling, nimbleness etc.
over all though, i woudlnt want a 944 as a daily driver personally, but thats just me. sports cars require constant up keep and maintenence, especially 20 year old sports cars (and if you think thats bad, try a 40 year old sports car like my 912!!). the bmw, while sporty, isnt a sports car, and doesnt require as much up keep. *then again how much up keep is relative to how the car was kept, maintained and driven in the past.
thats just my 2 cents. my next daily driver will either be a newer bmw, or an a4.
09-13-2005, 05:03 AM
#26
[QUOTE=hammerwerfer I loved my Sport Evolution. Funny thing though, I would say that the lack of torque was the main thing I would notice.[/QUOTE]
Oops, please excuse my screw-up above. Hammerwerfer, you're right, even the 2.5 doesn't have tons of torque. However, it's much more torquey than the old 2.3. Also remember my car has U.S. (4:10) gearing which is much shorter than the Euro car. Not so good for long interstates, but really good my 80mph freeway commute.
Cheers,
Joe
1995 Porsche 993
1988 BMW E30 M3 2.5 (240HP) daily driver
Oops, please excuse my screw-up above. Hammerwerfer, you're right, even the 2.5 doesn't have tons of torque. However, it's much more torquey than the old 2.3. Also remember my car has U.S. (4:10) gearing which is much shorter than the Euro car. Not so good for long interstates, but really good my 80mph freeway commute.
Cheers,
Joe
1995 Porsche 993
1988 BMW E30 M3 2.5 (240HP) daily driver
09-13-2005, 10:57 AM
#27
Race Car
Originally Posted by hammerwerfer
I keep forgetting that you lads didn't get the real E36 M3...much less tossable but way faster!
oh well, its still a great car, and you can get almost 300 N/A crank hp with some mods to the US spec cars like cams, intake, exhaust, etc.
09-13-2005, 11:22 AM
#28
Hey Man
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I have a 91 325iX (basically an all wheel drive 325iS), an 83 NA, and a 86 951. The 325 would be my hands down choice for a daily driver. The car is well balanced, well geared for street use, great visiblity, and the ergonomics for an older car are top notch. My oldest son drives the 325 now and having AWD/LSD makes it a real winner in the rain. I think the E30 is one of the best cars BMW has ever built considering the era.
In the NA comparison: The 325 has slightly better low end acceleration, similar tossibility, much quieter, less driver fatigue, so much easier to work on, parts are readily available, and cost less. Which car brings a smile to my face first when driving? The 951, 944, and 325 in that order.
In the NA comparison: The 325 has slightly better low end acceleration, similar tossibility, much quieter, less driver fatigue, so much easier to work on, parts are readily available, and cost less. Which car brings a smile to my face first when driving? The 951, 944, and 325 in that order.
09-13-2005, 02:12 PM
#29
I have a 1993 e36 320i and an 1987 944Turbo(951). I don't mind either for daily driving, though I don't drive much daily?! The BMW has upgraded suspension (FK Coilover w/ koni adj.) and on 60 series tires it floats down the road compared to my p-car. however when pushed moderately the BMW is flatter in the corners w/ higher spring rates. BMW is much easier to drive in inclement weather, I'm garaging the p-car for winter. BMW is smoother shifting , softer clutch, more sound deadening, etc... It's more luxury than p-car. I hope I don't get flamed here but honestly the p-car feels like really hopped up Volkswagens I've owned in the past. 
Fun to drive-ness definitely goes to the 951, folks talk about turbo lag... I like to think of it as turbo anticipation... . I'd hate to have to part with either of these cars. They are both great in their own rights, I'd have to agree with others above that the m3's (or clone) are the way to go as far as BMW's are concerned, this is why I'd love to and plan to one day putting a S50 spec or better motor into my e36. If you like exhaust notes then hands down the straight six DOHC in the BMW is pure symphonic pleasure to my ears, (recall the new 6 series commercial with the sound over of a shifting bmw as twilight ensues over that wonderful piece of machinery) though a noisy bov on the 951 would be pretty cool too ( think of WRC cars)... As far as maintenance goes, both are going to be expensive, learn to wrench yourself... get the FSM's. Though maintenance costs are high they are high for any vehicle if you are buying genuine factory parts, i.e. 250 bucks for a GM Tie rod end for my truck, $500 for the nickel plated slip yoke, etc... For the amount you'd get from selling your car for another, I'd say keep it. Get a well maintained 951, or 944s, or 944S2 and have the choice, what shall I drive today? the BMW or the Porsche.... life is full of tough decisions... 
Jason...
Fun to drive-ness definitely goes to the 951, folks talk about turbo lag... I like to think of it as turbo anticipation... . I'd hate to have to part with either of these cars. They are both great in their own rights, I'd have to agree with others above that the m3's (or clone) are the way to go as far as BMW's are concerned, this is why I'd love to and plan to one day putting a S50 spec or better motor into my e36. If you like exhaust notes then hands down the straight six DOHC in the BMW is pure symphonic pleasure to my ears, (recall the new 6 series commercial with the sound over of a shifting bmw as twilight ensues over that wonderful piece of machinery) though a noisy bov on the 951 would be pretty cool too ( think of WRC cars)... As far as maintenance goes, both are going to be expensive, learn to wrench yourself... get the FSM's. Though maintenance costs are high they are high for any vehicle if you are buying genuine factory parts, i.e. 250 bucks for a GM Tie rod end for my truck, $500 for the nickel plated slip yoke, etc... For the amount you'd get from selling your car for another, I'd say keep it. Get a well maintained 951, or 944s, or 944S2 and have the choice, what shall I drive today? the BMW or the Porsche.... life is full of tough decisions... Jason...
09-13-2005, 02:16 PM
#30
Race Car
Originally Posted by 951North
Get a well maintained 951, or 944s, or 944S2 and have the choice, what shall I drive today? the BMW or the Porsche.... life is full of tough decisions...
