KLR

I'm truly at my wit's end with my long running A/C woes. I started in late 2003 with functioning R12 A/C. In spring of 2004, my original compressor gave up (play in the bearings/shaft allowed all freon to leak out), so I payed aplenty to have a proper R134a conversion performed. This included a new compressor, drier, fittings, proper flush, etc. at an exceptionally good shop in Philly with a national reputation. It was ice cold at the vents for a month.

The next time I had the car in for service in August 2004 at an extremely well known shop in Long Island, I had the leak investigated. Nothing was found with the sniffer or UV light, a couple of fittings were tightened, and the system was recharged. Ice cold for three weeks.

Same routine this spring at another extremely well known shop in Long Island. A fitting at the condesor was sweating mildly and tightened, but nothing else could be found. Same result.

De ja vu all over again today. No evidence of the leak, no clear path to follow going forward. I had them charge it up anyway, because I frankly don't know what else to do and am hoping that this time around (having already leaked 7.5 lbs of freon through whatever leak exists) some evidence will be left.

To be completely clear -- these are not chump change guys, this is not the schmuck local dealer, and this is not Joe-Bob's AC shop. These are now three separate, extremely well known and well reputed people who have gone to huge lengths to diagnose this. We're talking about the car being on vacuum overnight multiple times, being left running for 60 minutes on a lift on a 95 degree humid day to look for traces of dye in the condensation coming off of the evaporator. I've been through it with them with the UV light, glasses, sniffer, etc. We've had the glovebox out twice now. The f%$ker does not have any dye showing anywhere and will not set off the sniffer!! Not on a lift, not on a jack, not at a vent, not... well, you get the point. Rant off.

Now the questions:

1. Is there anything I can add/do to make this charge last? I've heard that Wurth makes a sealant product. Is this something I can install myself? My latest guy is not enthusiastic about this option.

2. What would you do next if you were me? I'm inclined to just go ahead next spring (after the system has long since evacuated itself) and begin replacing things. First on the list would be a new condensor and compressor to condensor barrier line from Griffiths.com. I really don't know what else to do, and I feel ridiculous continuing to throw money at trying to figure out which 20 year old POS is responsible for this rather than simply replacing some of this stuff.

Please... any thoughts from those who have dealt with this type of issue would help. Please do not tell me about the successful Freeze-12 conversion you completed while your car was up on blocks in the backyard -- I really don't want to hear it right now. Maybe later, when this experience is behind me and I can laugh about it. Please do tell me about your impossible to diagnose leak and how it was finally resolved.

badcoupe

First off have they tried running the car with the windows air on nad leaving the leak detector in the car? I often have to do this to find evap core leaks. Most often just checking for dye in the condensation won't find it. Don't use the sealer, I used to build prototype compressors at Visteon by hand. The sealer will destroy your compressor plus void any warranty it has. Vacuum will also not help you find the leak as there is very little inward pressure on the hoses as opposed to outward high pressure when the system is charged. It's very hard to find condensor leaks with the condensor in the car as you can't access all of the condensor very easily. On another note how new and recently calibrated is their sniffer, mine will detect down to a quarter of an ounce per year leak but it's also very sensitive to other things and the probe often needs replaced to ensure it's accuracy and prevent false alarms. Good luck and if you have any other questions feel free to ask!

The DareDevil

This product by Wurth is unreal: http://www.wurthcanada.com/en/new_pr...eak%20Stop.htm

I had a leak that would deplete my A/C charge within a month. After recharging and injecting this sealant my system has been blowing freezing cold air for two years.

It’s definitely something to look into. This sealant doesn’t crystallize in the system so it will continue to circulate, lubricate and block leaks.

75ohm

Hang in there boss, you'll get it nailed. So tell me fine Sir, have they evac'd and charged the system and check the high and low side valves for leakage over time? They can leak oh so slowly and drive you nuts.

SDGuy

Sounds like my story. No one could find my leak with UV and freon detection, but one place had the freon detector register at the interior vents. He suggested that it might be either an expansion valve or evaporator since those items are so well hidden. I actually went and bought a freon detector mystelf and hunted around. I pulled the air blower and poked around with it at the expansion valve. Nothing detected. Then I pulled my console and disconnected the drain line behind the radio. Major freon detection at the drain hole plus green ooze from all the UV dye. The evaporator was a real pain to replace. Hope that is not your problem, but it is worth a look. You can probably just pull the radio to grab that drain tube....

ibkevin

....and he knows what he talking aobut....

bader$

R-134 leaks can be very difficult to find. You can have a small leak or hole that the oil will plug up while the system is running. The problem with 134 is that the molecules are smaller than even the oil or a dye and they will not show up. Sometimes you have to use a leak detection gas of nitrogen and r22 so that it will wash down the inside of the components and uncover the leak.

AndyK

Hey Neal -
My car is at the mechanic as we speak. He's gonna put dye into the system and hunt for a leak. Stay tuned!

Also, that Wurths stuff seems to be "wurth" a look, since Derek says his AC worked great for 2 years after he used it!?

Matt H

This is exactly my diagnosis as well as recommendation.
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Peckster

My mechanic added a dye and sealant combo to my 134 system this spring, we never found the leak and it's been fine ever since.

My "conversion" cost a total of $150, and worked fine for the previous two years. Why spend more?

AndyK

Did you convert your OEM compressor to R134? And did you use the WURTH stuff to seal the leaks? I have an R12 substitute, and am thinking of converting to R134, and using the Wurth's leak sealer (which only works with a R134 system).

My mechanic couldn't find any apparent leaks (sound familiar Neal?)...it would be a gamble to convert, and use the 134 w/ leak stop stuff.

I'll get it all fixed by November!

Kevin Baker

Most suspect is going to be the evaporator. With the age of these cars, and the environment that the evap lives in, I'd have to guess that. Beyond that, you could have a small leak at a switch, or at one of the schrader valves. UV dye wouldn't help at the service ports, since that is where it is introduced, so there's gonna be dye there. With the fan on high, and the windows open, a small leak at the evaporator, would be hard to find. I third the idea of having them roll up the windows, put the ac on low fan, and leave the sniffer inside.

Paul C 944

Where can you find the wurth ac leak? I did a search but no luck?

Fishey

No need to change compressor

Charlie

When I purchased my 944 it had a leak. I suspicioned the evaporator or condensor. I could pull a vacuum on the system and in about 3 or 4 days it was gone. To eliminate the condensor I removed the two hoses at the bottom of the condensor and screwed them onto the two fittings of an old expansion valve I had. I then pulled a vacuum and 3 days later had not lost the vacuum so I knew the condensor was leaking. Replaced it with a new Griffiths super condensor and so far so good.