Hey- all you users(non-members), cough-up $18- ya cheap bastards!

 

Just a thought, could we have a couple of levels of sponsership?

One for the big guys, full time shops ect.

One for the part timers/one man shop and car parters.

I would gladly sign up as a low level sponser the next time I part out a car. The occasional parts for sale is one thing but guys like myself and a few others should cough up a little more to continue making $ by parting out cars here.

 

John & Jenn...........

Thanks for all your hard work & dedication to make the list what it is today!!

Paypal sent (to help the cause)!

 

What about ebay? Or just a personal website? Small guys/one men shops don't HAVE to sponsor rennlist to be successful or sell products right?

I'm getting ready to start selling P-N-P alarms for BMW's. I started posting on the bimmer boards about it without reading the rules and a mod let me know I was breaking them. No big deal, my posts were deleted, I have no problem with it. Given the choice of $150/mo sponsor membership for a minimum of 3 months, or selling stuff on my own, off the boards, I chose the latter. I'm going to put them up on ebay and a personal website.

Bruce@Arnnworx (userid: F18Rep) is a PERFECT example of this. Bruce is not a rennlist sponsor member, but is certainly a great member of the community. Bruce does not use this list for advertisement/ordering discussions at all. People are typically referred to his site when asking for help on DIY timing belt jobs or whatever. No "group buys" or any of that kind of thing on this list. I think Bruce should be the model for other "service" guys to follow.

 

Jenn, that recall of events is not accurate.

I read the Top Post of the selling thing and sponsorship and wondered if it applied to me. So I sent you a note and asked. Then the thread got pulled down for a night and then put back up for a week.

I think I was being honest and professional in contacting you about the situation. I likely started this whole vendor mess by making that contact.

But I don't want to argue that point. What bothers me is some people, like around 30, still don't know the build is done. So I need to chase them down. But people move, change email and don't read Rennlist every couple days. I guess I could wait for them to call me and complain. I don't need the final payments to live since I don't do this as a living. I just want them to get what they wanted and not tarnish my name and reputation. If you look around it is pretty golden and you won't find any negative comments.

The first deposit on this current build came on Jan 20th. It has taken 6 months to pull this build off. And I suspect the first guy may be dead. So I guess he won't care much about all this, but the others will.

I'm going to quit doing this stuff due to all the drama.

Oh, and I wasn't taking on new orders as such. That battery cable build was sold out. I had extra parts to make 8 kits and would do that for the late comers in August or Sept. And some people wanted the headlight stuff. Which I didn't have at this time, so didn't know how much supplies to order for the demand.

This has all got out of hand. Sigh ....

 

The thing I fear though DanG, is that soon enough some of the more vocal/whiney "sponsors" will start complaining about listers referring other listers to the likes of Bruce or whomever. They'll say things like the referring lister is a shill or lacky and this whole mess will start again.

Call me paranoid...

 

How about this:

If I look into setting up a web site that I administer and maintain where the "little guys", innovators, etc. can promote their products with links to their own sites, some product reviews and endorsements, etc. would it be possible to have THAT SITE (run by me) listed as a sponsor and allow those guys to direct market here or is that too flagrantly sidestepping this "pay-to-play" policy? In effect I'm proposing that I become a "distributor" (isn't this what a "vendor" is anyway?) in order for the small-time guys like IceShark and others to have a place to advertise their stuff and all SPLIT the cost of a vendor membership, which would probably solve the problem of small-time distributor barrier-to-entry cost. I'd even do it at no profit to myself - just enough to cover overhead costs. And I'd keep the books open.

I imagine that if so-and-so had a great idea for, say, a new hood scoop design (for example) and could reasonably produce one or two a week as a hobby and would make maybe $50 off each one, it'd be more beneficial for them to come to someone like me and toss in $20 a month towards being able to promote themselves here (through my site and a COOPERATIVE "sponsor" status) than trying to cough up a prohibitive $1,500 up front. I'm trying to save innovation and fresh ideas here, which is bred directly from enthusiasm, and ultimately isn't that a HUGE part of the Porsche community?

Just a thought. I'm not trying to step on John or anyone else's toes here, but I'm trying to come up with a creative solution that will get John what he thinks is fair and not crush 944 innovation in the name of defending vendors with deep pockets, which I think is ultimately a slap in the face to the 944 community. This place shouldn't be about who has the fattest wallet - it should be about working TOGETHER as a community to promote Porsche cars and car ownership. Heck, the Rennlist banner even says "The Porsche Enthusiasts Website" - isn't that ultimately what this is supposed to be about?!?!

Just a thought. . .

I'll probably get banned for even suggesting this. Whatever.

 

I think that is a great idea and was considering proposing the same idea myself.

So, running a co-operative, will you have to wear Birkenstocks?

 

Jeff, I think that is an excellent idea as well. One of the reasons that makes the 944 community so strong is new solutions. These cars are becoming 20 years old, and they arent getting younger. Instead of becoming a memory, a surprising amount of people still care enough to create new products and solutions for these cars. I don't think hobbyists should be shut down because they cannot afford sponsorship. If someone is producing and just making cost, but doing it to offer a solution for these cars not currently available, they should have somewhere to exprses this. A collective site, sponsored, for those who do small run/hobby level production in an informal environment sounds like a great idea.

LeadFoot944 (for example, i dont know all the facts...) just made an awesome chin spoiler. From what ive followed up, i highly doubt it was wind-tunnel tested for aerodynamics, molded, and tooled in a pro shop. The way one was made on weekends etc..., is how im sure more would be made if people want one. Same with the IceShark kits, etc... I do agree all products should be cleared with the website before being offered to public. However, a site as proposed sounds like a great way to end this situation and move on to an even better Rennlist. Lets not have a situation like this bring us down as a whole.

 

Jeff

That's a great idea.....

I do support all the hard work John and Jenn do....this support is in the form of my membership fee as well as trying to follow the rules. That said, I don't think it's their intent to discourage small time, built it in my garage guys from making stuff that helps the 944 ( or other P-car) community. I do see that it's a rough position for them when the sposors are paying for the right to advertise....I suppose the difference is that those sponsors for the most part are actual businesses, with stock on the shelf, etc.....it seems dan was in essence feeling demand and then making to order, in small quantity when asked to by us.

So I guess what John was trying to say is that we all helped to create the monster ( not Dan...but the issue). Maybe another way to handle the issue would be to charge a fee for a new rennlist section....so that the small-time guys could pay a per-post fee to post their TOPIC there...sort of a one-shot sponsorship. Maybe this should be the same for parting cars...a one-shot fee in a seperate section.....seems the fee could be reasonable and it would help generate some revenue so John does not have to run the register at walmart!

Thanks again John and Jenn....I'm a rennlist junkie and much appreciate the work you do!!!!

best

Joe

 

I had thought of that same solution, but don't see why its really necessary. Its not against the charter to discuss the products of a non-supporting vendor, or for that non-supporting vendor to be a paying or non-paying regular member and post on these forums. As long as that non-supporting vendor does not use the list to sell or promote their products, all is well.

I don't understand why things such as ordering information, build updates, and buyer counts need to be carried out on rennlist. All of that can be accomplished on the seller's own website, heck he can start up a forum on that website for discussion of all that stuff. Want to start up your own "group buy"? Thats great, throw all the info on a website and people that visit it can sign up for it there.

Have trouble keeping good contact with your customers? Add their email address to a "d-list" in whatever email program you have and the problem is solved. It would take under 1 minute per customer, just do it as the orders come in. Also post the same email updates to your main website for those that don't check their email and start wondering whats going on with the product.


I did my own H4 upgrade on my 944. I won't even pretend to believe its on the same level of quality as an IceShark kit. But I will say that seeing that multi-page thread pop back up to the top of the list every few days was pretty annoying to someone with no interest in it.

I have opened up the threads with reviews of the light cannons and was very impressed. These threads prompted me to check out IceShark's website for more information. Most of the times the links to his page were posted by a satisfied customer. This seems like the proper, and even desired way for a small-scale vendor such as Dan to reach people on THIS board. Unprompted product reviews are usually the most honest, and as Dan said, his reputation is strong and untarnished in the community.

So certainly a communal small-vendors site that paid a single site sponsorship could be a great idea, and probably work really well (with John D and Jenn's approval, of course). But even that seems unecessary, as those small vendors can just start up their own site, throw some items on ebay, and be almost guaranteed that someone will post up the ebay link and ask what people think. It would take them a little while to build up interest and a loyal customer base, but its a good alternative to a feud like this.

 

Simple solution DONT READ THE DAMN THING. Much like another "will these wheels fit" is annoying to those of us who have answered the question for every wheel ever made on this planet. Same exact thing. If we could delete thread because they were annoying to us, most of the 924/944 threads would be deleted immediately
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That wasn't the point I was trying to make Matt. I didn't read the thread.

But every time it popped up I was like "why does this thread need to be here?" I don't understand why that discussion needed to be carried out infront of everyone. Carry it out in email or pm's or the seller's website/own forums.

 

Point being that 99% of the traffic on this site could be carried out via FAQ or PM. I dont think you or anyone believes that should be the way it is, however.

I bet in a normal week there arent 3 threads that havent already been answered somewhere on this forum.
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True. The wheel fitting example is a good one too.

And supporting-vendor group buys are almost the same thing.

There's a line for this stuff, but I'm probably not the right one to decide it. Luckily for everyone, it's not up to me anyway.