“Of Rennlist, Sponsors and Community – OH MY!”
07-24-2005, 12:55 PM
#16
The Hoffinator
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
John and Jen,
well stated and i whole hartedly agree!!
btw, 3 jobs? jeeze John, how can you do that with out loosing your sanity? i worked two full time jobs once, and i thought that was nuts. thanks for all your hard work with this board, it is greatly appreciated, but when i read somthing like that i cant help but worry about ya.
well stated and i whole hartedly agree!!
btw, 3 jobs? jeeze John, how can you do that with out loosing your sanity? i worked two full time jobs once, and i thought that was nuts. thanks for all your hard work with this board, it is greatly appreciated, but when i read somthing like that i cant help but worry about ya.
07-24-2005, 12:59 PM
#18
TD, dont you think it is important to do this in public? There are numerous reasons but the most important is that we may all be in Dans position at some point so an understanding of the rules and expectations may benefit us all.
Just an example; I had something created to sell but I will not do that. Instead I will let me friends have one and just be done with it. There is not enough money in it to pay 350+ dollars to advertise it to others.
There is also something to be said about being open and honest. Part of having a public forum is being able to take the good with the bad. You cant please everyone but you should at least hear them out. I know that John and Jenn believe in letting the members of this board speak their mind, there are vitually no closed threads because of it. I would like to see this one stay open for a long time as well. Maybe we can all learn something.
The short point is that both sides might have handled this a little better.
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Just an example; I had something created to sell but I will not do that. Instead I will let me friends have one and just be done with it. There is not enough money in it to pay 350+ dollars to advertise it to others.
There is also something to be said about being open and honest. Part of having a public forum is being able to take the good with the bad. You cant please everyone but you should at least hear them out. I know that John and Jenn believe in letting the members of this board speak their mind, there are vitually no closed threads because of it. I would like to see this one stay open for a long time as well. Maybe we can all learn something.
The short point is that both sides might have handled this a little better.
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07-24-2005, 01:03 PM
#19
Originally Posted by Matt H
TD, dont you think it is important to do this in public? There are numerous reasons but the most important is that we may all be in Dans position at some point so an understanding of the rules and expectations may benefit us all.
Just an example; I had something created to sell but I will not do that. Instead I will let me friends have one and just be done with it. There is not enough money in it to pay 350+ dollars to advertise it to others.
There is also something to be said about being open and honest. Part of having a public forum is being able to take the good with the bad. You cant please everyone but you should at least hear them out. I know that John and Jenn believe in letting the members of this board speak their mind, there are vitually no closed threads because of it. I would like to see this one stay open for a long time as well. Maybe we can all learn something.
The short point is that both sides might have handled this a little better.
Just an example; I had something created to sell but I will not do that. Instead I will let me friends have one and just be done with it. There is not enough money in it to pay 350+ dollars to advertise it to others.
There is also something to be said about being open and honest. Part of having a public forum is being able to take the good with the bad. You cant please everyone but you should at least hear them out. I know that John and Jenn believe in letting the members of this board speak their mind, there are vitually no closed threads because of it. I would like to see this one stay open for a long time as well. Maybe we can all learn something.
The short point is that both sides might have handled this a little better.
My focus is more on tone and civility than content. It is fine to discuss something politely, but, when people seem to get so bent out of shape, it suggests to me that they don't really have a clear focus on their own importance vis-a-vis everyone else, particularly John and Jen. As with most Internet communications, I think that people would say things very differently if they had to say it to the intended addressee face-to-face.
TD in DC
07-24-2005, 01:04 PM
#20
Certainly agree with you.
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07-24-2005, 01:05 PM
#21
Budding Photographer
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: A Quiet Little Lake In The Middle of Nowhere
Posts: 7,007
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Originally Posted by TD in DC
I view Rennlist as if it were John and Jen's living room. They have graciously invited us into their house so we can talk about our common passion -- Porsches.
Originally Posted by TD in DC
Most people come to the party and have a great time. Some spout a bunch of BS, but when does that not happen at a party? Some are very entertaining, and others are total know-it-all bores, but even they are tolerable because you can learn a lot from a bore.
Originally Posted by TD in DC
If you don't like what the host did, leave and start your own party. However, it seems a little ridiculous to claim that, since you brought a six-pack or bag of Doritos to the party, you have a right to remain at the party and tell the Host what a dolt they are for kicking out X but not Y, or even to complain about how the party isn't as much fun anymore. I cannot imagine anyone doing that at a real party, but it seems to go on here all the time.
Originally Posted by TD in DC
If we all just acted like we were guests in John and Jen's house, I doubt that we would have as many silly spats
At least that's my experience... most of the timethey are just too big of pussies to do it real life that they have to vent their anger here!
Originally Posted by TD in DC
TD in DC aka just another bore at the party (but at least I brought beer and try not to fight too much in John and Jen's living room) 
Sorry this whole thing is getting my Irish up and I needed to spat a little and TD just gave me the incentive and humor to do it while laughing (the only way to do it)
Later,
Cory
07-24-2005, 01:11 PM
#22
Defending the Border
Rennlist Member
Rest In Peace
Rennlist Member
Rest In Peace
John and Jenn, Thank you again. I guess now is a bad time to ask for some more Renn business cards Pcars are always popping up on the west coast's largest naval station!
I too hope Dan is able to sort through this.
Pcars are always popping up on the west coast's largest naval station!I too hope Dan is able to sort through this.
07-24-2005, 01:40 PM
#23
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Can someone shed some light on the the thread started in the turbo forum by user "future" then?
IIRC, and I'm pretty sure I do, he wasn't selling headlight replacements. He had, in his words, commissioned a company in the UK to build him a set of replacement headlights. He was showing what had been accomplished so far, and there was a bit of fun by other board members photoshopping possibilities. My impression was "future" made it clear he wasn't selling these, nor representing the company that was making them, rather that he'd give us their contact information once his parts were finished.
The thread was locked. There have been threads in the past that were similar that didn't get locked. Maybe that was then and this is now. What I find most disturbing is the original post was replaced by a moderator. "Future" was in effect accused of trying to sell something, as an excerpt from the post that was put in place of his says thusly:
"If you post We/our/my company has... - you are selling something....
If you post We/our/my product is... - you are selling something....
If you post We/our/my customers'... - you are selling something....
If you post We/our/my will be announcing... - you are selling something....
If you post We/our/my test results for our... - you are selling something....
If you post We/our/my can make or supply that... - you are selling something...."
I didn't see in his original post where he violated these rules of conduct, but since his original post has been replaced, that's rather moot now isn't it? Besides, the user had just registered in April. Very much a rookie to the ways of rennlist, couldn't we have handled that better? What he showed us had promise, and certainly intrigued several of us. I disagree with overwriting the original post. Close the thread fine. Instruct the rookie rennlister to take a different tack and go through John D., I'm ok with that too. However, I saw nothing in the OP that mandated it be wiped out. I don't know what if anything transpired between user "future" and the moderators/John D., but as a no-name powerless peon member here, I didn't see the need for the heavy hand with "future".
There seemingly has been a witch hunt going on about Iceshark. When I sent him my deposit, I had no idea there was a **** storm on the horizon. After all, this was hardly the first time there had been an Iceshark product build.
I have expressed appreciation for Rennlist in the past. I continue to appreciate what John and Jenn have so graciously provided the Porsche community. However, as several threads have vaporized here lately, and the recent treatment of rookie "future", I have to wonder where we're headed.
IIRC, and I'm pretty sure I do, he wasn't selling headlight replacements. He had, in his words, commissioned a company in the UK to build him a set of replacement headlights. He was showing what had been accomplished so far, and there was a bit of fun by other board members photoshopping possibilities. My impression was "future" made it clear he wasn't selling these, nor representing the company that was making them, rather that he'd give us their contact information once his parts were finished.
The thread was locked. There have been threads in the past that were similar that didn't get locked. Maybe that was then and this is now. What I find most disturbing is the original post was replaced by a moderator. "Future" was in effect accused of trying to sell something, as an excerpt from the post that was put in place of his says thusly:
"If you post We/our/my company has... - you are selling something....
If you post We/our/my product is... - you are selling something....
If you post We/our/my customers'... - you are selling something....
If you post We/our/my will be announcing... - you are selling something....
If you post We/our/my test results for our... - you are selling something....
If you post We/our/my can make or supply that... - you are selling something...."
I didn't see in his original post where he violated these rules of conduct, but since his original post has been replaced, that's rather moot now isn't it? Besides, the user had just registered in April. Very much a rookie to the ways of rennlist, couldn't we have handled that better? What he showed us had promise, and certainly intrigued several of us. I disagree with overwriting the original post. Close the thread fine. Instruct the rookie rennlister to take a different tack and go through John D., I'm ok with that too. However, I saw nothing in the OP that mandated it be wiped out. I don't know what if anything transpired between user "future" and the moderators/John D., but as a no-name powerless peon member here, I didn't see the need for the heavy hand with "future".
There seemingly has been a witch hunt going on about Iceshark. When I sent him my deposit, I had no idea there was a **** storm on the horizon. After all, this was hardly the first time there had been an Iceshark product build.
I have expressed appreciation for Rennlist in the past. I continue to appreciate what John and Jenn have so graciously provided the Porsche community. However, as several threads have vaporized here lately, and the recent treatment of rookie "future", I have to wonder where we're headed.
07-24-2005, 01:54 PM
#24
Having purchased one of Dan's first headlight wiring kits, let us not forget that Dan, for the most part, was begged to build the first kits. And IIRC each subsequent build was as a result of individual listers contacting Dan about build kits for them, not the other way around. Due to economy of scale Dan has to build a certain number of kits to keep the price reasonable. Could he have passed the cost of a Rennlist sponsorship on to his 'consumers'? Sure, why not. Was Dan actively pursuing doing this as a full fledged sideline? Not that I have ever heard.
It almost makes me feel like I broke the rules for GIVING AWAY FOR FREE parts I had in my basement since it may have cut into site sponsors ability to make a buck. Are car parting threads going to be a no-no now?
It almost makes me feel like I broke the rules for GIVING AWAY FOR FREE parts I had in my basement since it may have cut into site sponsors ability to make a buck. Are car parting threads going to be a no-no now?
Last edited by Manning; 07-24-2005 at 08:51 PM. Reason: Because I can't spell very well
07-24-2005, 02:15 PM
#26
As I've read through thislist and tried to form my thoughts into a response, I cannot do better than Matt H, red1, and Mannng. I also share the same view as Matt H regarding the enforcement of the rules.
TD,
With respect to the anaology of John and Jenn inviting usinto their living room, I don't share that view exactly and feel it is necessary to add that we have been invited to hang but have to pay a cover charge to party.
This is still an outstanding site and fully appreciate all the effort John and Jenn are putting into it but am still saddened by the way events transpired.
TD,
With respect to the anaology of John and Jenn inviting usinto their living room, I don't share that view exactly and feel it is necessary to add that we have been invited to hang but have to pay a cover charge to party.
This is still an outstanding site and fully appreciate all the effort John and Jenn are putting into it but am still saddened by the way events transpired.
Originally Posted by Manning
Having purchased one of Dan's first headlight wiring kits, let us not forget that Dan, for the most part, was begged to build the first kits. And IIRC each subsequent build was as a result of individual listers contacting Dan about build kits for them, not the other way around. Due to economy of scale Dan has to build a certain number of kits to keep the price reasonable. Could he have pasted the cost of a Rennlist sponsorship on to his 'consumers'? Sure, why not. Was Dan actively pursuing doing this as a full fledged sideline? Not that I have ever heard.
It almost makes me feel like I broke the rules for GIVING AWAY FOR FREE parts I had in my basement since it may have cut into site sponsors ability to make a buck. Are car parting threads going to be a no-no now?
It almost makes me feel like I broke the rules for GIVING AWAY FOR FREE parts I had in my basement since it may have cut into site sponsors ability to make a buck. Are car parting threads going to be a no-no now?
07-24-2005, 02:17 PM
#27
Originally Posted by streckfu's951
TD,
With respect to the anaology of John and Jenn inviting usinto their living room, I don't share that view exactly and feel it is necessary to add that we have been invited to hang but have to pay a cover charge to party.
With respect to the anaology of John and Jenn inviting usinto their living room, I don't share that view exactly and feel it is necessary to add that we have been invited to hang but have to pay a cover charge to party.
07-24-2005, 02:24 PM
#28
Originally Posted by TD in DC
I'm not sure I follow you on that point. You do not have to become a member . . . ever. Many people hit post counts in the 1000s as "registered users" without ever paying a dime. As such, you do NOT have to pay a cover charge to party, but you will not get to hang out with the grid girls
I should have been more clear. Sorry.
As I understand the events, Dan did become a member (even if it took a while) and feel there could have been a better outcome. Also, the threads in which paying members were expressing their views were closed.
I don't want to make this an exclusivley negative post so I'll see you all in Grid Girls later with a beer.
07-24-2005, 02:29 PM
#29
Originally Posted by streckfu's951
I should have been more clear. Sorry.
As I understand the events, Dan did become a member (even if it took a while) and feel there could have been a better outcome. Also, the threads in which paying members were expressing their views were closed.
I don't want to make this an exclusivley negative post so I'll see you all in Grid Girls later with a beer.
As I understand the events, Dan did become a member (even if it took a while) and feel there could have been a better outcome. Also, the threads in which paying members were expressing their views were closed.
I don't want to make this an exclusivley negative post so I'll see you all in Grid Girls later with a beer.
07-24-2005, 03:12 PM
#30
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Originally Posted by streckfu's951
I don't want to make this an exclusivley negative post so I'll see you all in Grid Girls later with a beer.