Skip

wice.lt, sorry to have taken over your thread - good discussion, anyhow, right

booster is just a big vacuum - if it holds vacuum, it should be working. However, if the MC is leaking, it may be leaking into the booster. I bet you've already done this, but have a good look up under the dash where the brake pedal attaches to the MC to check for fluid.

tinman944

Austin the approach is right but the pipe plug is wrong.A pipe plug is tappered and a brake line fitting is straight.
To do this right go to parts store and buy a brake line fitting and have the end welded closed.
If you have a really good M/C you will blow the pipe plug right out

Skip

I don't think anyone, certainly not me, was even remotely suggesting that upgraded brakes are snake oil. My contention, thus far, has been that the na brakes are more than adequate. This is to say that they do not NEED to be improved upon in order to get some VERY strong braking out of them. If they are upgraded, they are done so by choice, not necessity.

As Matt has eluded to, if you take two equal cars out and test them one with OE brakes and the other with upgraded brakes, the latter will likely stop faster/better. This is not evidence that the OE brakes are not adequate - they are simply not the best money can buy. We, too, sell brake upgrade kits for the 944na - just not very many of them. Maybe it has something to do with my attitude

I've won a couple of autocrosses in my day with just the measly old na brakes. Actually, with as little as brakes matter (to me) in autocross, I never really got the full effect of their ability until I started hitting the track regularly. Now, I am quite impressed that they can slow the car quite well and as often as needed on my home track which has 3 downhill high braking threshold corners, two of them back to back slowing from 135 and 110 respectively. The 110 down to ~40 corner is especially challenging since it's on a ~12 degree decline. And, it's an easy one to be a little overconfident on as it has a great safe runoff area. I use KFP Carbon-Kevlar Gold and ATE Typ200/Blue fluid and no cooling other than the turbo air deflectors.

The guys that regularly drive Thunderhill and Laguna Seca have no problems with na brakes either - both have elevation change braking areas. Portland is a flat track, but with the front chicane in place you can be braking from 130 down to 40 or less depending on traffic. Without the chicane the front straight is ungodly long and even the na will hit max velocity (140'ish) before braking to 50. But, then there's a relatively long while before you brake hard again on the back straight. Not the best track to really get a "grip" on braking efficiency.

I don't honestly think we have a different stand on the issues. I'm just unwavering to my opinion that 944na brakes are more than adequate. They could certainly be better - I don't argue that one bit. I'd love to slap a set of PCCB's on my ride and see exactly how much braking force it takes to make nose prints on the windshield.

If you are braking consistently on the street from these aforementioned speeds then you are; a. wrong, b. wronger, c. wrongest. Then, we could get into a discussion about how much the tire weighs into braking efficiency. No street tire can possibly allow the full stopping ability that the 944na can dish out given good fluid, pads and overall health.

John (H) knows this, but PBR/Axxis Metal Masters are not track pads - as I have said in the past, they are good street and light duty track pads and will melt if pushed too hard - at ~$30/set, they are a great bargain. From what I understand, John drives the snot out of his car and should therefore not even be standing close to a car with MM's. Also, his choice to upgrade brakes was done so with no regard to rules since he is not competing. I'm quite sure he wouldn't have made the choice to drive against the big dogs in GT classes with his na just to save a few bucks on brake pads. Then again, maybe not...

Matt O.

So...

I'm trying to understand all this. I guess I'm still in the learning stage --

We'll spend $400 to make the front of our NAs LOOK like Turbos...
We'll spend $400 to make our spoilers LOOK like a 968 Turbo S...
We'll spend $350 to light up the entire Western Hemisphere at night...
We'll spend $2000+ on bigger COOLER wheels (but leave the brakes alone...)...
We'll spend $350 on a chip for 4 extra hp...
We'll spend $50 on a cone K&N for 2 extra hp...
We'll spend $150 to make out interior LOOK like carbon fiber...
We'll spend $100 on a shift ****...
We'll spend $250 on a slotted nose panel for the LOOK (oh and air flow...right)...
We'll spend... ad nauseum (ad bankrupt-eum)...

And all that is SUPPORTED by Rennlisters with "Whoa nice wheels" or "Whoa nice spoiler"

When in reality...

The front of the stock NA is more then adequate.
The spoil on the stock NA is more then adequate.
The headlights on the stock NA are more then adequate.
The stock phone dials are more then adequate.
The stock tune is more then adequate.
The stock air cleaner is more then adequate.
The stock interior is more then adequate.
The stock shifter is more then adequate.
The stock nose panel is more then adequate.
Etc., etc.

Then someone makes something SPECIFCALLY for the 944 NA that may or may not be overkill, but if it is, it is in a good way - safer, better, more modern etc., then stock... and the concensus of the all-mighty 924/944/968 board is now all of a sudden STOCK is perfectly fine, the way to go, more then adequate, and anything more is a waste of money. Just making sure I understand all this right. Of course, I have yet to see a Boxster with single piston calipers, but maybe I just need to get out more.

EDIT
Skip, I didn't know you sell an upgrade kit for the na. I remember talking to you about that years ago but where is it on the site?? I remember I got that adapter from Chuck a year or two ago but it was for the M030...? Do you have a new adapter?

Skip

yes

Travis - sflraver

It must be free crack day on Rennlist , because everyone is lighting up.....

Smoke 'em if you got 'em .....

Porsche-O-Phile

It IS nice to see some good upgrades for the n/a in any event - although it would be best utilized with a turbo (like a Callaway. . . ) or an SFR supercharger. . . or the supercharger that guy claims he's gotten good #'s out of for the 924(S). That's when it'd start being worthwhile - that and with larger wheels / tires.

Matt O.

To what? That I'm still in the learning stage (you're right), that I need to get out more (you're probably right) or that you have a new adapter?

To each his own! That's what it boils down to. I surrender.

PS
I love my 968 brakes.

M758

I best upgraded I'd like to see for the NA is something the really makes hp? Not some stupid cone filter, chip, or MAF that does not really address the real weakness of the NA motor. Nope show me a change that gets me a real 15-20hp for $1000.

Now then I would be interested.

Of course get NA hp to 220 (flyhwheel) and then the NA brakes won't be up to the task.

Travis - sflraver

OMG
An extra 15 - 20hp would be so overkill in an NA. Who needs that extra power??? You can already chirp your tires from first to second so anything more would be wasted for anything other than the 1% of NA drivers who know how to handle it....


(no amount of rolling smiley faces can express the laughter that just spued forth from the office after reading that post.)

In my best rock and roll voice ~ "I Love you Rennlist!!! Goodnight"

M758

15-20 cheap hp will keep me away from those pesky Honda's when racing. Plus allow us 944 NA to keep up with F-stock 951's at some tracks.

Andre

i think i may start another war with this but they do make something that adds about 70 hp and 100 ft-lbs of torque for about 2000-2500. Not only that it drastically improves life and reliability. I bought a full 951 motor, changed seals, changed to a good used turbo, and dropped it in. It had half the miles than my 944 motor did to boot, 60k

Yabo

I agree, noone was saying that better brakes are nto a good upgrade, or "not cool" at all... There's like 5 different arguments going on at once here I think...

Skip

yes

[i'm trying to be agreeable]

Matt O.

Skip you don't even have to try your avatar makes me laugh every time you post.