NA filter relocated below fender behind airdam!!!
04-28-2005, 02:59 PM
#31
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Originally Posted by Campeck
kind of a hack job. but the most ghetto setup gives the most hp. 
I sourced a tube from a friend of mine that was 3in.
so it goes from the afm: 3in-3in-2 3/4in-filter.
the angles aren't "perfect" but with everything tightened down its very solid.
I bought a 23$ 90deg angle 2-3/4in raiator hose that was about 2 1/2 feet long and ended up hacking the shiesa out of it and using about 4$ worth of it..sheesh.
had to do some light frame modding and inner fender modding....(hack jobs)
and i need to find a way to protect the filter. I'll think of something. maybe even a little scoop down there that i can cover when it rains and stuff.
I had to cut the pipes. (angle grinders are cool![except that hot **** that hits your forearms!]), cut the hell out of the turn signal light to not crimp the hose, and cut the inner fender up.
in general, it's a pain to install.
but I think if i can get a good dyno reading, a smaller dia. filter and 2 3/4 in everything so you wouldn't have to chop your car up I could market these things! (please no one steal it from me.)
( it FEELS.....faster in the high end...but I dont trust myself anymore. Ive been driving the car slow lately cause of a ticket..grrr...so I can't tell. need dyno time!)
PIIIIIIIIICS!
I sourced a tube from a friend of mine that was 3in.
so it goes from the afm: 3in-3in-2 3/4in-filter.
the angles aren't "perfect" but with everything tightened down its very solid.
I bought a 23$ 90deg angle 2-3/4in raiator hose that was about 2 1/2 feet long and ended up hacking the shiesa out of it and using about 4$ worth of it..sheesh.
had to do some light frame modding and inner fender modding....(hack jobs
)and i need to find a way to protect the filter. I'll think of something. maybe even a little scoop down there that i can cover when it rains and stuff.
I had to cut the pipes. (angle grinders are cool![except that hot **** that hits your forearms!]), cut the hell out of the turn signal light to not crimp the hose, and cut the inner fender up.
in general, it's a pain to install.
but I think if i can get a good dyno reading, a smaller dia. filter and 2 3/4 in everything so you wouldn't have to chop your car up I could market these things! (please no one steal it from me.)
( it FEELS.....faster in the high end...but I dont trust myself anymore. Ive been driving the car slow lately cause of a ticket..grrr...so I can't tell. need dyno time!)
PIIIIIIIIICS!
04-28-2005, 03:15 PM
#32
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At least SOMEONE is figuring out how to make power on these NA motors instead of pouting how you can't, and porsche did it best. BS!
Cmon, for christ sake an integra GSR, which has a B18C1, makes about 20 hp MORE then these "Porsches" STOCK. throw on a couple of bolt ons, and you've gained nearly another 10 hp. Valvetrain and a little milling of the head and piggyback you're making 210 WHP on that motor. Do i have to remind you that that motor has .7 L less displacement then the 2.5?
You got an NA and want to make power? throw on a 16 valve head. That is the first step. Raise compression, get a set of cams, and engine managment. Of course the little things that let it breathe beter and I would lose all faith in these motors if that setup didnt see AT LEAST 200 WHP. And its not that expensive! Head --> $700? pistons, JE forged $500 Piggyback --> 700+ or - cams, less then a thousand, its really not much. 3k and you can have a 200 whp NA, if not more. You guys have A LOT to learn from the Honda guys you hold yourself so high and mighty over. They own us in every way, track, mods, and technical info. I've been around the Honda community, and those guys who know what their doing KNOW WHAT THEY ARE doing.
~Eyal
Cmon, for christ sake an integra GSR, which has a B18C1, makes about 20 hp MORE then these "Porsches" STOCK. throw on a couple of bolt ons, and you've gained nearly another 10 hp. Valvetrain and a little milling of the head and piggyback you're making 210 WHP on that motor. Do i have to remind you that that motor has .7 L less displacement then the 2.5?
You got an NA and want to make power? throw on a 16 valve head. That is the first step. Raise compression, get a set of cams, and engine managment. Of course the little things that let it breathe beter and I would lose all faith in these motors if that setup didnt see AT LEAST 200 WHP. And its not that expensive! Head --> $700? pistons, JE forged $500 Piggyback --> 700+ or - cams, less then a thousand, its really not much. 3k and you can have a 200 whp NA, if not more. You guys have A LOT to learn from the Honda guys you hold yourself so high and mighty over. They own us in every way, track, mods, and technical info. I've been around the Honda community, and those guys who know what their doing KNOW WHAT THEY ARE doing.
~Eyal
04-28-2005, 03:16 PM
#33
Rennlist Member
Just a note, the more bends and clamps you have on the tubing, the more turbulence. The possible benefit will cancel itself out.
One more thing, the 944's electronics dont compensate for denser air. Even if you do get slightly colder air into the intake, you are not going to get any more power. You will merely reduce the risk of detonation, which frankly, is non existant in an n/a.
One more thing, the 944's electronics dont compensate for denser air. Even if you do get slightly colder air into the intake, you are not going to get any more power. You will merely reduce the risk of detonation, which frankly, is non existant in an n/a.
04-28-2005, 03:20 PM
#35
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All of the intake "waves" never get further up the intake than the plenum that's part of the cast aluminum intake manifold.
__________________
83 944 = It's NOT a 'real' Porsche -- Its Better!!!!
When was the last time you changed your timing and balance belts
and/or cam chain and tensioner?
The 83
__________________
83 944 = It's NOT a 'real' Porsche -- Its Better!!!!
When was the last time you changed your timing and balance belts
and/or cam chain and tensioner?
The 83
04-28-2005, 03:20 PM
#36
Rennlist Member
Originally Posted by Eyal 951
At least SOMEONE is figuring out how to make power on these NA motors instead of pouting how you can't, and porsche did it best. BS!
Cmon, for christ sake an integra GSR, which has a B18C1, makes about 20 hp MORE then these "Porsches" STOCK. throw on a couple of bolt ons, and you've gained nearly another 10 hp. Valvetrain and a little milling of the head and piggyback you're making 210 WHP on that motor. Do i have to remind you that that motor has .7 L less displacement then the 2.5?
You got an NA and want to make power? throw on a 16 valve head. That is the first step. Raise compression, get a set of cams, and engine managment. Of course the little things that let it breathe beter and I would lose all faith in these motors if that setup didnt see AT LEAST 200 WHP. And its not that expensive! Head --> $700? pistons, JE forged $500 Piggyback --> 700+ or - cams, less then a thousand, its really not much. 3k and you can have a 200 whp NA, if not more. You guys have A LOT to learn from the Honda guys you hold yourself so high and mighty over. They own us in every way, track, mods, and technical info. I've been around the Honda community, and those guys who know what their doing KNOW WHAT THEY ARE doing.
~Eyal
Cmon, for christ sake an integra GSR, which has a B18C1, makes about 20 hp MORE then these "Porsches" STOCK. throw on a couple of bolt ons, and you've gained nearly another 10 hp. Valvetrain and a little milling of the head and piggyback you're making 210 WHP on that motor. Do i have to remind you that that motor has .7 L less displacement then the 2.5?
You got an NA and want to make power? throw on a 16 valve head. That is the first step. Raise compression, get a set of cams, and engine managment. Of course the little things that let it breathe beter and I would lose all faith in these motors if that setup didnt see AT LEAST 200 WHP. And its not that expensive! Head --> $700? pistons, JE forged $500 Piggyback --> 700+ or - cams, less then a thousand, its really not much. 3k and you can have a 200 whp NA, if not more. You guys have A LOT to learn from the Honda guys you hold yourself so high and mighty over. They own us in every way, track, mods, and technical info. I've been around the Honda community, and those guys who know what their doing KNOW WHAT THEY ARE doing.
~Eyal
It's an entirely different world. The market is so high for the Jap cars, which allows developers to spend more time doing it. I mean, come on, my friend got a full set of coilovers for his MR2 for $350 new. It is not nearly as easy as it looks...
04-28-2005, 03:21 PM
#37
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Originally Posted by iloveporsches
The problem is that for 3k and comprable work time, you could just buy a 951, S2, or maybe even a 968 engine and plunk it in the car.
~Eyal
04-28-2005, 03:25 PM
#39
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Anyone who embarks on a serious journey to make a 944 n/a performance kit, or a "vtec," is going to bankrupt himself, whether he succeeds or not.
It is simply never going to happen. Lets use Danno for example - he was struggling to even suit a much larger 951 market.
It is simply never going to happen. Lets use Danno for example - he was struggling to even suit a much larger 951 market.
04-28-2005, 03:28 PM
#40
Originally Posted by Eyal 951
Yes, but for that price you SHOULD be making more then a stock S2 motor. Plus it will respond to further work a lot more. 200WHP is an absolute low estimate. I mean, with comparable work, and a sleeved block to 2.0 or 2.1, that integra motor will make more then 230 whp... we still have them in displacement! Who's up for making Vtec conversion for the 944 motor!
~Eyal
~Eyal
My point is that you'll very quickly hit a point where the marginal dollar per performance gain goes to **** on the NA motor.
04-28-2005, 03:28 PM
#41
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Someone should drop in B18C1 into the NA. Lighter, 8K redline, Honda reliability, and MORE POWER STOCK! Then go modding.
Hmm, anyone have a cheap NA, i think i have a new project!
~Eyal
Hmm, anyone have a cheap NA, i think i have a new project!
~Eyal
04-28-2005, 03:31 PM
#42
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Originally Posted by iloveporsches
Ok, so it takes you 3k to get slightly above a stock S2 or 951 motor. Now what? Throw some chips on the 951, and its well ahead of the NA motor again.
My point is that you'll very quickly hit a point where the marginal dollar per performance gain goes to **** on the NA motor.
My point is that you'll very quickly hit a point where the marginal dollar per performance gain goes to **** on the NA motor.
Serge, of course you are 100% correct, I meant more for their own car, and maybe resell like 1 or 2 since nobody would DARE let anything honda (Dare i say, superior?) touch the car.
~Eyal
04-28-2005, 03:39 PM
#43
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I've drove with my filter located in the same exact place on my Corrados for years, in torrential downpours and through puddles, and the filter never got soaked. The engine never ingested water at all. Just because it's close to the ground, doesn't mean water will necessarily hit it. It's protected all the way around by body parts.
I think you'll be OK. Nice to see some creativity!
I'll be working on mine pretty soon...looks like I'm gonna go Turbo after all, I've got some help and we're about ready to move forward. FYI, this might end up being a working prototype kit to develop an add-on turbo kit for the N/As from a well respected 944 tuner. Stay tuned.
I think you'll be OK. Nice to see some creativity!
I'll be working on mine pretty soon...looks like I'm gonna go Turbo after all, I've got some help and we're about ready to move forward. FYI, this might end up being a working prototype kit to develop an add-on turbo kit for the N/As from a well respected 944 tuner. Stay tuned.
04-28-2005, 03:41 PM
#44
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You guys have A LOT to learn from the Honda guys you hold yourself so high and mighty over. They own us in every way, track, mods, and technical info. I've been around the Honda community, and those guys who know what their doing KNOW WHAT THEY ARE doing.
04-28-2005, 03:56 PM
#45
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Keep in mind, Japanese cars are built for a greater audience too. Take the 300zx twin turbo...two small quick spool turbos, which run out of steam by redline.
The mr2 turbo STOPS boosting at 5500...1000 shy of redline. But it kick in at about 2000 rpm.
Porsche, on the other hand, designs a turbo system which suits the upper end of the power band, the one you actually use in serious competition. When you take it for a test drive the first time, the mr2 will feel much faster. A lot of ppl confuse quick spool with an efficient turbo design.
This is a bit OT, but Japanese performance upgrades will always be more readily available. I just did an ebay search and found a MAF for 50 bucks for a 240SX. Compare this to 1000 for a compareable 944 unit. Thats 20! times more.
Once you add up every little cost it takes to build a race motor, your 3k budget will run out quickly. I think you won't even hit 200hp with it.
The mr2 turbo STOPS boosting at 5500...1000 shy of redline. But it kick in at about 2000 rpm.
Porsche, on the other hand, designs a turbo system which suits the upper end of the power band, the one you actually use in serious competition. When you take it for a test drive the first time, the mr2 will feel much faster. A lot of ppl confuse quick spool with an efficient turbo design.
This is a bit OT, but Japanese performance upgrades will always be more readily available. I just did an ebay search and found a MAF for 50 bucks for a 240SX. Compare this to 1000 for a compareable 944 unit. Thats 20! times more.
Once you add up every little cost it takes to build a race motor, your 3k budget will run out quickly. I think you won't even hit 200hp with it.