944 v. Miata (long)
04-17-2005, 11:18 AM
#17
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Well, seeing that there is ALWAYS a Miata at any Autocross, no matter who's club is hosting, ive gotten to see a lot of them in action. Personally, they even look fast on the track! Its gotta be the super light weight! My neighbor was babysitting a moddifiied Miata once. They are neat, and they HAVE to be super fun, but they are so damn small!
04-17-2005, 07:50 PM
#18
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Brian, Broc Yates and Peter Egan couldn't have done it better, man. Good stuff! Even IF you punked out on the handling issue. 
But yeah, take 'em both out to a proper racetrack, toss 'em out to the limit, and I'd bet the 944 comes out with the faster times. Does price factor into the "daily driver" equation? Sorta crossing up your categories, bub. And here I thought you were gonna be THE next great auto- hack. Sigh...
But yeah, take 'em both out to a proper racetrack, toss 'em out to the limit, and I'd bet the 944 comes out with the faster times. Does price factor into the "daily driver" equation? Sorta crossing up your categories, bub. And here I thought you were gonna be THE next great auto- hack. Sigh...
04-17-2005, 08:04 PM
#19
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Actually, price was the major factor in the daily driver equation. Simply put, I think that the 944 is a better platform for a daily driver than the Miata, but in my case, the extra cost of it was enough for me to relegate it to a "weekend toy" position while I daily drive the Miata.
Unless you meant purchase price, in which case, no, it wasn't factored.
BB.
Unless you meant purchase price, in which case, no, it wasn't factored.
BB.
04-17-2005, 11:32 PM
#20
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I got to drive an SM2 prepped Miate this weekend at an autocross. He had full suspension, adjustable shocks a roll bar and a turbo. This is vs. my 951 with stock suspension and a chip.
The Miata was insanity. The thing was frighteningly responsive in every sense - acceleration, turning, braking. The only downside is that it's pretty small if you're over 6', and unless you have a rollbar, well, you knwo what they say about Miatas ...
I can't imagine what it would cost to get a 951 up to that level - it may even require a smaller turbo to get the responsiveness. IMHO, the 944 is a better track car even in stock trim, and the Miata can't be beaten for auto-x.
The Miata was insanity. The thing was frighteningly responsive in every sense - acceleration, turning, braking. The only downside is that it's pretty small if you're over 6', and unless you have a rollbar, well, you knwo what they say about Miatas ...
I can't imagine what it would cost to get a 951 up to that level - it may even require a smaller turbo to get the responsiveness. IMHO, the 944 is a better track car even in stock trim, and the Miata can't be beaten for auto-x.
04-18-2005, 02:05 PM
#21
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FWIW, I like Miatas. I know how jealous I was when my neighbor got an aftermarket set of wheels/tires for his Miata for less than I paid for one wheel.
Fun to drive little cars, and I prefer the looks of the late model fixed headlight version.
Fun to drive little cars, and I prefer the looks of the late model fixed headlight version.
04-18-2005, 02:29 PM
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I will jump in and chime some of my thoughts on the situation since I am both a 944 and a Miata owner, and my Miata is a late model which means some more power and other refinements.
Basically I will jump to the points where I have a different opinion than BB, if I don't touch on it you can assume that I agree on what BB said.
Acceleration
With the introduction of the 1.8l engine in the Miata, the car became a little terror. In fact running a humble 16 inch rim with decent performance tires I was to the point where I dreaded much rain, snow? Well lets just say I couldn't get to work one day because there was a slight incline at an intersection with a stop sign. I had to back out and take a different route. The Miata will tear through first and bark into second in a stock configuration with a stock LSD, making the car a hoot to drive. I have a nice curve right before I hit my office, I would come in hard let of give her a rev and drop a gear and kick the rear out the whole way around it. Now this is where I have some trouble comparing since I have a slush box in my Porsche. So I will jump into my Subaru Impreza which had a flat 4 2.5l with about the same output of the Porsche, and I think the latest offerings by Miata provides better power delivery across the whole range.
Advantage: Miata
Handling
BB was pretty spot on with the Miata being super light and crisp on its feet, where the 944 in comparison is heavier. To say the 944 feels like its carved out of billet steel is an understatement, I was thinking a hunk of pure lead. But the Miata being so light when you toss it to a curve I feel the lightness fighting me, I am dead scared of letting off to much in a corner if I am traveling at a higher rate of speed for it feels like the car is going to let go. And the problem with the Miata is that when it lets go its easy to get back under control, but it snaps really, really bad, making it over correct very easily. The 944 feels heavy, but because of it feels confident. But to even throw it into the curves like I do the Miata I have to feel like I am taking a leap of faith, once again due to the feel of the extra weight. But once you do she takes it without flinching.
Advantage: Miata for its confidence, 944 for getting the job done.
Better Daily Driver
My biggest gripe on the Miata, and the reason I bought a 944 is right here. I feel like performance wise I downgraded in every category. At least thats what I feel. I feel like a Miata can handle better, stop better, accelerate better, ect ect than the 944, but being a convertible the damn thing is like riding on two pieces of steel that articulate right behind the drivers seat. Get into a rough patch of concrete the back end vibrates like mad due to lack of weight and of course a top to keep the chassis stiff. Then of course there is wind noise. Its fine to have wind noise when the top is down, hehe. This is more of a personal preference. The Miata's top is really well designed compared to most convertibles I have ridden in. Its fairly quiet, and decent at keeping the elements out, but not good enough for my daily pleasure. I think the Miata is an awesome summer/weekender car, and one of the best track cars you will see at the lower level SCCA events. But the 944 just likes the open road, and handles it with a lot more sophistication.
Advantage: 944
Just another point of view from a fellow MX-5 / 944 guy.
Basically I will jump to the points where I have a different opinion than BB, if I don't touch on it you can assume that I agree on what BB said.
Acceleration
With the introduction of the 1.8l engine in the Miata, the car became a little terror. In fact running a humble 16 inch rim with decent performance tires I was to the point where I dreaded much rain, snow? Well lets just say I couldn't get to work one day because there was a slight incline at an intersection with a stop sign. I had to back out and take a different route. The Miata will tear through first and bark into second in a stock configuration with a stock LSD, making the car a hoot to drive. I have a nice curve right before I hit my office, I would come in hard let of give her a rev and drop a gear and kick the rear out the whole way around it. Now this is where I have some trouble comparing since I have a slush box in my Porsche. So I will jump into my Subaru Impreza which had a flat 4 2.5l with about the same output of the Porsche, and I think the latest offerings by Miata provides better power delivery across the whole range.
Advantage: Miata
Handling
BB was pretty spot on with the Miata being super light and crisp on its feet, where the 944 in comparison is heavier. To say the 944 feels like its carved out of billet steel is an understatement, I was thinking a hunk of pure lead. But the Miata being so light when you toss it to a curve I feel the lightness fighting me, I am dead scared of letting off to much in a corner if I am traveling at a higher rate of speed for it feels like the car is going to let go. And the problem with the Miata is that when it lets go its easy to get back under control, but it snaps really, really bad, making it over correct very easily. The 944 feels heavy, but because of it feels confident. But to even throw it into the curves like I do the Miata I have to feel like I am taking a leap of faith, once again due to the feel of the extra weight. But once you do she takes it without flinching.
Advantage: Miata for its confidence, 944 for getting the job done.
Better Daily Driver
My biggest gripe on the Miata, and the reason I bought a 944 is right here. I feel like performance wise I downgraded in every category. At least thats what I feel. I feel like a Miata can handle better, stop better, accelerate better, ect ect than the 944, but being a convertible the damn thing is like riding on two pieces of steel that articulate right behind the drivers seat. Get into a rough patch of concrete the back end vibrates like mad due to lack of weight and of course a top to keep the chassis stiff. Then of course there is wind noise. Its fine to have wind noise when the top is down, hehe. This is more of a personal preference. The Miata's top is really well designed compared to most convertibles I have ridden in. Its fairly quiet, and decent at keeping the elements out, but not good enough for my daily pleasure. I think the Miata is an awesome summer/weekender car, and one of the best track cars you will see at the lower level SCCA events. But the 944 just likes the open road, and handles it with a lot more sophistication.
Advantage: 944
Just another point of view from a fellow MX-5 / 944 guy.
04-18-2005, 04:26 PM
#24
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A Miata was on my list of possibles when I was looking for a new daily driver. I went to test drive one and had trouble getting comfortable just sitting in it. I am right around 6 feet tall and had the seat all the way back. But my knee would hit the steering wheel every time I went to feel the brake pedal.
But I went for the test drive anyway. This was last year's model. For the short test drive, I found the acceleration to be quite lackluster, the brakes mushy, and the handling soft. All in all, it felt real girly. I wasn't too impressed. The absolute lack of any storage makes it utterly impractical for anything but romping around on the weekends. Add to this the unfair trade practices of the Japanese, and it got crossed off my list. Wasn't for me.
I might try it again when the new model comes out. See if there's any improvement.
But I went for the test drive anyway. This was last year's model. For the short test drive, I found the acceleration to be quite lackluster, the brakes mushy, and the handling soft. All in all, it felt real girly. I wasn't too impressed. The absolute lack of any storage makes it utterly impractical for anything but romping around on the weekends. Add to this the unfair trade practices of the Japanese, and it got crossed off my list. Wasn't for me.
I might try it again when the new model comes out. See if there's any improvement.
04-18-2005, 07:50 PM
#25
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OK 944, it's great to have more input!
I had only driven one 1.8 during my test drives, so I really can't compare with that. But seeing as the two cars I have are pretty much dead-even in acceleration (by the numbers, anyway, but they go about it in different ways), I can imagine that the extra 0.2 liters will make a big difference.
BB.
I had only driven one 1.8 during my test drives, so I really can't compare with that. But seeing as the two cars I have are pretty much dead-even in acceleration (by the numbers, anyway, but they go about it in different ways), I can imagine that the extra 0.2 liters will make a big difference.
BB.
04-18-2005, 08:10 PM
#26
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04-22-2015, 02:42 PM
#27
Thank you for this thread!
I have been scouring the Net for resources, doing my due diligence and driving Miatas and 944s for the last several months.
With serious nervousness in my stomach, I paid for a solid and well maintained 1986 944 Base, last night.
I am exactly 6-feet tall, and a moderate 205lbs. I also felt seriously constrained in an NA/NB Miata. I haven't driven an NC. The 944 has room to spare in every dimension. The Miata felt like flying a Cessna 150, where your shoulders are pressed into your passenger at all times.
In spirited driving, 90 degree turns on a 3->2 downshift, rev matching and full throttle exit, both felt solid. But, the 944 feels like the better braking car, and just more composed.
Yes, I really got into this because I missed the manual transmission and full opentop experience of my old Jeep Wrangler in the Colorado summertime. The 944 won't give me that. But, I am really relieved that i can fit into it comfortably, unlike the Miata.
And, really, in my case, budgeting no more than $8,000 for a used play car, the 944 is delivering more than the ratted 2001-2003 Miatas I encountered.
I have been scouring the Net for resources, doing my due diligence and driving Miatas and 944s for the last several months.
With serious nervousness in my stomach, I paid for a solid and well maintained 1986 944 Base, last night.
I am exactly 6-feet tall, and a moderate 205lbs. I also felt seriously constrained in an NA/NB Miata. I haven't driven an NC. The 944 has room to spare in every dimension. The Miata felt like flying a Cessna 150, where your shoulders are pressed into your passenger at all times.
In spirited driving, 90 degree turns on a 3->2 downshift, rev matching and full throttle exit, both felt solid. But, the 944 feels like the better braking car, and just more composed.
Yes, I really got into this because I missed the manual transmission and full opentop experience of my old Jeep Wrangler in the Colorado summertime. The 944 won't give me that. But, I am really relieved that i can fit into it comfortably, unlike the Miata.
And, really, in my case, budgeting no more than $8,000 for a used play car, the 944 is delivering more than the ratted 2001-2003 Miatas I encountered.
04-22-2015, 05:05 PM
#28
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Well, that's quite a thread bump! I could probably come up with the "ten years later" update but I'm feeling pretty lazy right now. 
Anyway, welcome to the club!
BB.
I could probably come up with the "ten years later" update but I'm feeling pretty lazy right now. Anyway, welcome to the club!
BB.
04-22-2015, 05:07 PM
#29
Arise, zombie thread!
I didn't even notice that. I thought it was a 2015 thread. Too much Miata and 944 info cramming, I guess.
Woo hoo, it's like the Matrix. Welcome, to the real world.
So, BeerBurner, what are your thoughts on the topic, now ten years later?
I didn't even notice that. I thought it was a 2015 thread. Too much Miata and 944 info cramming, I guess.
Woo hoo, it's like the Matrix. Welcome, to the real world.
So, BeerBurner, what are your thoughts on the topic, now ten years later?
04-22-2015, 05:33 PM
#30
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There's a lot that could be said but I'll cut to the point.
In the last ten years, both cars saw more modifications. The Miata picked up better suspension, chassis stiffening, a full exhaust, aero-doodads, rollbar, soft top delete and a hard top. The 944 didn't get as much (swaybars, steering wheel, some aero doodads and a Redline rollbar).
Both cars saw the track. While I never timed either of them, I found that both cars seemed to run fairly evenly given similar modifications. The Miata's main advantage was that you could buy more mods for it than for the 944 for any given amount of money.
The 944, on the other hand, could easily carry all of my stuff in the car whereas the Miata was a tighter fit for all of my stuff and I had to have someone bring stuff to the track with me if I brought my wife. Also, while neither car was particularly fast on the straights, I felt that the 944 did a better job of clawing its way back up to speed when something happened and I lost my momentum.
Unfortunately, I got to the point where the 944 became my baby (read: "not disposable") and I retired it from the track. I sold off some of the modifications to fund the Miata.
At this point, the Miata lives happily as a daily driver and part time track toy. This is both good and bad. It does the job well but it is also pretty visceral and raw so it can become tiring after more than 90 or so minutes behind the wheel. The 944 is more refined and will happily deliver my wife and I on a weekend trip up to Maine and back. (I'm sure if it was more heavily modified that part would be rougher.)
The funny thing is that I have found my 944 to be far more reliable than my Miata. I wouldn't expect this to be the general rule but, in my case, it is holding true. I got lucky on this one.
BB.
In the last ten years, both cars saw more modifications. The Miata picked up better suspension, chassis stiffening, a full exhaust, aero-doodads, rollbar, soft top delete and a hard top. The 944 didn't get as much (swaybars, steering wheel, some aero doodads and a Redline rollbar).
Both cars saw the track. While I never timed either of them, I found that both cars seemed to run fairly evenly given similar modifications. The Miata's main advantage was that you could buy more mods for it than for the 944 for any given amount of money.
The 944, on the other hand, could easily carry all of my stuff in the car whereas the Miata was a tighter fit for all of my stuff and I had to have someone bring stuff to the track with me if I brought my wife. Also, while neither car was particularly fast on the straights, I felt that the 944 did a better job of clawing its way back up to speed when something happened and I lost my momentum.
Unfortunately, I got to the point where the 944 became my baby (read: "not disposable") and I retired it from the track. I sold off some of the modifications to fund the Miata.
At this point, the Miata lives happily as a daily driver and part time track toy. This is both good and bad. It does the job well but it is also pretty visceral and raw so it can become tiring after more than 90 or so minutes behind the wheel. The 944 is more refined and will happily deliver my wife and I on a weekend trip up to Maine and back. (I'm sure if it was more heavily modified that part would be rougher.)
The funny thing is that I have found my 944 to be far more reliable than my Miata. I wouldn't expect this to be the general rule but, in my case, it is holding true. I got lucky on this one.
BB.