penguinking

competition, costs, speed, maintenance, tracks used, etc.

i'm planning on building a small car over the summer to do some club racing for fall or next year '06. was looking at these two series and found these to both be relatively low cost. what're your opinions on both? thanks

Robert

inactiveuser92616

here is my take. I have never ever seen a spec 944 at the track, despite having a job that takes me there on a regular basis. Spec Miatas are always there. If you want competition, go miata.

hacker-pschorr

I would rather race a 944, but I'm sure the Miata is cheaper to run. There are far more people running them, higher production, possibly better following and a dealer network that doesn't put their nose in the air when you show up (like some Porsche dealers do when 944's come in).

penguinking

now i've only raced karts and done DE's in cars, so im clueless as to how club racing works. what are the associated costs for a race weekend? i can calculate fuel/tires myself; but what are typical entry fees and administrative costs like that?

hacker-pschorr

Cost of racing formula goes something like this:

Add up every replacement part you may ever need + wear items + weekend entry fee.

Take the above total, double it, then multiply that number by the number of events you plan on attending. Double that final number again will get you a 1 year racing budget.

penguinking

i know that already. i race karts and i know how the costs accumulate, even in the cheapest form of motorsport. another cool racing formula i like is the triangle: Fast, Reliable, Cheap: pick any two

but anyways, supposedly spec miata..spec944(?) is much less expensive because its a spec class and motors are fairly reliable because you're not modding them much. any spec racers want to chime in?

M758

There are not 944-spec cars in the south east. 944-spec is running in Arizona and Southern California. It is starting to run northern california, but slowely.

In the south east there is 944-cup, but I believe that the costs to run there are little higher due to higher prep level. Also is not as closely controlled interms of rules.

Spec Miatas are found nationwide, but few run in Arizona for some reason. 944-spec are are more powerfull and in general faster although at top notch spec miata driver can beat an average 944-spec driver without to much trouble.

I don't have the costs for spec miata, but I do for 944-spec.

Build costs vary depending if you do a self build vs shop build.
Completed and competitive cars run about $10k. It is very easy to make a car competitive in 944-spec as you can build a winning motor in you backyard with simple tools and basic knowledge.

I have heard that in spec miata you need a probuilt motor to have chance. Rumors abound about Sunbelt motors. These motors are found in may top notch spec miatas and appraently have more hp. There is no solid evidence as to why these motors have more hp, but there are many ideas, but little to nothing solid. I have heard rumors about 20k spec miatas, but nothing concrete. Remember in spec class driver skill will make the difference. That means that if a driver is getting beaten it is because he is not as good as the next guy. Sometimes his ego won't let him think he is not good enough so therefore the the other guys must be cheating or pushing the limits of the rules in poor manner. So take the sunbelt motors with a grain of salt, but realize that "talk" can han happen in anyspec series since some folks always need an excuse as to why they don't win.

Tires.... Most spec miata regions run a spec tire. Size is 205/50 R15. 944-spec runs 225/50 R15 using toyo RA-1's for its spec tire. Most 944-spec guys can get a full season of 16-20 races from 2 sets of tires. I assume the same or better from spec miata's on Toyo's, less of course on hoosiers or other tires.

944-spec is completely non-contact affair. Spec miata's are known to bump each other some. Most is light nudges vs fender bashing, but they are not known as "wreck me otters" for nothing.

The 944-spec drive train and chassis are pretty solid. Time and effort are required when taking any junk car and making it race ready as old parts sometimes fail. However once these issues are taken care of the cars are quite robust. One weak point are the rod bearings. This is common to all 944 cars both street and race cars, turbo and na cars. There are plenty of theories as to the causes, but no real 100% fail safe solutions. In 3 years of race/track duty I have not had any wear realated replacements except for brake pads, 1 set of front rotors in 40+ races, and some bushing issues which I have since resolved. I did have a few problems with old parts like old radiators, fuel rails, etc. I have run into some rod bearing issues unfortunately. I have heard the miata's are pretty solid cars, but have no direct expereince.

Space. 944's can fit big and tall drivers. Spec miata can be small and it can be hard for tall drivers to fit and larger ones to make min weight.

Per race costs in 944 spec are primarilly event entry fees and any other hotel, food costs that you incur. 944-spec cars can run on 91 pump gas and some are driven to the track and back. These cars can still be competitive. Most maintinence on 944 is spent on oil changes, brake fuild & pads and tires. Expect most pads to last at least one season. It is very advantagus to be able to work on you 944-spec car yourself. These cars are not hard to maintain and minor issues can be resolved at the track if you have some knowledge or pit with other 944-spec racers. Go to a shop and costs to race more that double. I would assume this to be true of spec miata as well.

Matt H

Spec Miata's are dead cheap, hella fun to drive, and did I mention CHEAP. I just dont see how you could run a 944 for a similar amount. Long block Miata motors can be had from MAZCOMP for 1600 bucks (or they could 2 years ago). The bodies are throw away and they are as simple as can be to work on. What they are not...is fast.

Where is the stort of the guy with the 944 Turbo who went to Spec Miata...THAT is funny stuff. Series 9 Chronicles, I believe it is called. Yes, I realize it isnt apples to apples.
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inactiveuser92616

spec miatas are very reliable. They do have a number of small collisions during a race though, fans love to watch the miatas go at it. Fields can be more than 40 cars for some events, so driver skill is highly tested. Over the summer the shop I worked at brought in a turn-key miata for race prep/support. We hardly had to do anything for that car to keep it going. Simple nut and bolt check, and refuel once per day. That was it.

RMills944

My uncle raced a 944 in SCCA for a couple years, but the car wasn't competative in its class. The 944 is expensive to run, and you just can't do enough to it compared to other cars it's grouped in a class with. About 2 years ago he switched to running a Honda Prelude and loves it. It's much more competative in its class and a hell of a lot cheaper to run.

Matt H

One thing I forgot, you can rent Spec Miata's at a number of tracks if you wish to try it out.
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penguinking

oh wow - i thought 944 spec (or 944 cup in my area) was alot closer to miata racing. i've seen spec miata races and i know how big the field gets (60 something cars at road atlanta, took nearly a whole minute for the field to cross the start/finish at green flag). i'm also aware of the sunbelt motors. though im looking for experience and learning, not trophys.

a little elaboration? M758 claims 944's are fairly inexpensive to run, yet RMills944 says they're expensive. though i realize obviously that a porsche would run higher costs than a mazda.

M758

That applies to SCCA ITS prepared cars, not to 944-spec cars. The prep level is much higher in ITS.

Matt H

They are both right. A 944 Spec car should be fairly cheap (though, I still cant believe as cheap as a Miata). An SCCA 944 will never be competitive and will cost a fortune. The difference is the nature of SPEC racing.
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BeerBurner

I haven't seriously looked in to spec racing for either car. All I can add is that owning both cars, the Miata is far simpler and cheaper than the 944, mile for mile. I realize that doesn't necessarily relate to the track. But in the end, if I were to choose one of them to race, it'd be the Miata. Which is a shame, 'cause racing Porsches is so much sexier.

BB.