bader$

What is the deal with the struts on the cars like mine? Not very many options for the cars with sealed struts.

pete944

The Koni inserts from Paragon are a good way to go. That's what I have.

Steve PH

With a sealed strut, you replace the whole unit. For instance you can get a straight replacement with top adjustment (Koni do these) and also a converted coil over unit with height adjustment as well as damping adjustment (there seem to be a few of these on the market).

Inserts are only found on pre 85 944s and 924s. Non insert units are easier to replace.

tifosiman

The sealed Koni yellow units found on the post-85 cars are NLA, I believe. In order to "replace" them with the same, you need to purchase the "hacksaw" kit from Paragon and customize the sealed unit (ie: CUT it and install the new insert).

Fishey

actually the Konis Yellows convert your sealed struts to insert struts.

bader$

Is it the same for the sachs/boge struts? Has anyone done this?

Fishey

Yes, those are the ones you cut bader$. I have done it pete944 has done it (Jeremy might have done it) I know most people on this board have done it.

bader$

Mine seem to be fine for now but I would like to upgrade to the Koni's at some point.

Alpine951

I will be ordering the front konis and cutting my original boges. Hey whats wrong with the Welt rear bushings if they need grease. The elephant racing polybronze ones use them and they seem to be the hot ticket right now. Here is a pic of a thread by CHuck Moreland of Elephant drilling and tapping a grease fitting.

http://www.elephantracing.com/images...coverplate.jpg

http://www.elephantracing.com/images...ssanddrill.jpg

Elephant Chuck

Alpine, there are multiple problems with the plastic bushings (polyurethane, delrin,etc). Grease can help, but doesn't eliminate the issues.

Fitment is the big issue. The spring plate, cover plate and torsion tube are manufactured with fairly wide tolerence, this makes it impossible for a plastic bushing to fit properly out of the box.

The correct way to install the plastic bushings is to press them into the cover plate and torsion tube, allowing them to deform and assume the shape of these respective parts. Then you need to open up the ID of the bushing to precisely fit the spring plate. This needs to be perfectly round and the fit should be in the range of .005 inches.

I don't know of any tool that can do this properly with the bushing installed in the torsion tube. The spring plate cover could probably be turned on a very large metal lathe. Remove too much material and you've got a sloppy fit. Too tight and you've got a lot of friction.

In the real world guys usually use a big dowl rod wrapped in sand paper to open up the bushings. To say this is imprecise is an understatement. You will not get a proper fit with this technique.

The net of it is plastic bushings never fit properly. They introduce a great deal of friction in the suspension, this creates harsh ride characteristics and poor handling.

Here is some information about the handling problems caused by plastic bushings and their friction.
http://www.elephantracing.com/techto...nefriction.htm

Robby

First off, I agree w/this last part- for one thing, most people who push full coil-overs &/OR helper springs point to the ability to change ride height easily, BUT- they rarely ever tell you that you need to RE-ALIGN your car everytime you change the ride height- I just paid $250 for an alignment not too long ago & am not to eager to do it again anytime soon...

2nd- You CAN raise & lower your ride height w/out reindexing w/the eccentric nuts- BUT- the amount will depend COMPLETELY on the specific car in question- I was lucky- MY car was at the top of it's adjustment- my mech measured it & I could lower my car by 1.25" w/the eccentric nuts- more than enough... If your car's sitting at stock height, then, a 1" drop is a LOT...

I also agree w/Tifo that IF you're planning to reindex anyway, why not just install larger T-bars- you can err on the side of caution IF you are getting threaded body rears- Bilstein Escorts are threaded body BTW You can then, add helpers, IF you later decide you want even stiffer. Just make sure your car is set w/the new t-bars, to where the eccentric bolts/nuts are at the top of their adjustment, so that when/IF you DO add helpers, you can simply lower the car back to your desired height w/the eccentrics- otherwise, you're reindexing again & may as well get new larger t-bars AGAIN... BTW- I'll sell you my brand new- never been used- 27mm T-bars for a good price if you're interested...

Paragon has a chart w/the spring rates / T-bar rates, etc.... it says that a helper spring is ~56% effective, so, again, Tifo's assessment of "...closer to 60%..." is pretty much right on.... I felt like mine was about the same- I think it's b/t 50% & 60%... here is a link:

http://www.tech-session.com/kb/index...x_v2&id=22&c=4

Several other things... I have Ledas- non-adj... Karl- Racer's Edge- do NOT get these... I hate them... Not sure about the hgiher end adj Ledas. I had them valved for 250lb springs & 28mm T-bars. I then decided to get 225lb springs & 27mm T-bas- Karl & my mechanic then talked me out of changing the T-bars & going to 100lb helpers. As I said, the ride height adj was NOT a prob- I had plenty of room w/just the eccentrics... the rear of the car felt great, but, was too stiff in relation to the front- I decided to bring the front UP instead of the rear DOWN, so, I went to 275lb springs- Karl exchanged these for me for free & did not have 250's, which I actually wanted... In the end, these cars ARE undersprung from the factory. I feel every bump in the road, but, I do not think it's the spring rate- when I went from 225lbs to 275lbs, I did not notice much dif in ride quality- I'm pretty sure it's the shocks- I think it would take close to 400lb springs before the car would have too much spring rate for comfort, so long as the shocks were good quality & were valved w/the spring rates in mind....

So- I would recommend HIGH-pressure, MONO-tube, GAS, shocks, like all Bilsteins- the Ledas are LOW pressure, TWIN-tube, OIL shocks. Danno, Chris Cervelli, Tony G, & several others told me to go w/the Bilsteins & I did not listen- I wish I had. Cervelli has the fastest 944 time at Willow Springs- he used 1600lb springs at one time... Anyway, HE recommended (for a Turbo S) Bilstein Firehawks (AK1110-A & AK1111-A) w/275- 300lb springs & 29mm T-bars. tony G runs the Escorts w/250lb springs & loves them- he is going FULL coil over though. I personally would not do this for a STREET car though... I would worry about that rear A-arm breaking under some of the instantaneous stresses of potholes, etc... most people fear the bolt breaking, but, I'm not as worried about that- in any case, I would just not do it for the street, although Tony has had his this way for awhile & he uses his on hte street a lot & has had no probs... oh well... Anyway, YOU have a 944NA, so, you're car is ~100-150lbs lighter. This doesn't make MUCH dif, but, you might want to err on the slight side of caution that being the case. IF you want the AK1110/1111's (Firehawks), then, you'll want a spring rate of at LEAST 250lbs- most people have advised me closer to 300lbs- 275 should be fine & is what I intend to use. IF you go w/the Escorts, they are valved ~60% stiffer IIRC- they're AT LEAST half again as stiff- you can see the actual valving #'s on Lindsey's site- you'll have to dig a little more to find the Firehawks. anyway, I would not go less than 400lbs for the Escorts, although, AGAIN, Tony G uses them w/250's & say's it's fine- I would not. ONE thing though- the FIREHAW?KS do NOT have a threaded body REAR shock- you will have to have ESCORTS for that- IF you want the Firehawk valving though, you can get the Escort rars re-valved by Bilstein for ~$120/pr I think- it will at least be $50/ea, so, expect a little more to be on the safe side- by the time you add S&H, you should be breaking ~$150, but, that's not too bad...

Another great choice would be one of the higher end Koni mono-tubes- that Skip & Jason sell at Paragon- they have some great ones there, but, unfortunately, they are a bit out of my budget- IF I go koni, I will get Paragon to rebuild my Turbo S Koni's & make them DBL Adj.... THAT would be pretty cool & I wish I had done it before instead of the Ledas...

Above all, the ABSOLUTE BEST advice ANYONE can POSSIBLY give you is to go for a ride in several OTHER 944's to get an idea of what they feel like w/different set-ups- you will never really KNOW how any of these cars FEEL until you've actually been in them....

As for sways- I would opt for the 968 M030's. I will sell you MY Turbo S M030's if you want... I'd give both front & rear for under $200... Maybe... $175....? The 968 M030 is 19mm rear 3-way adj & the front is 30mm- the Turbo S front is 26mm & the rear is 18mm. Not sure how the various adjustability of the 968 affects the stiffness though. If you are really into racing, the Weltmeisters seem to be the way to go- they are the stiffest- I'm just not too sure I want to go w/aftermarket stuff when the stock 968 M030 is so close IMO... I've just had a lot of bad luck w/this car w/stuff like that. Koklen makes sways now IIRC- not sure how they will compare. ALSO- possibly the BEST sways would be the 968 CUP sways- I THINK the rear is 21mm & the front 31mm(?)- you'll never find these though... from what I understand they are EXTREMELY RARE...

Can't help you on bushings- I'm trying to decide what to do myself- mine is a street car, so, ride quality is #1 importance- this includes noise- I HATE noises..... I'm just not sure about the Delrin, Poly U, etc.... I know not to go w/spherical bearing though...

good luck....

xsboost90

i say the stock suspension is perfectly adequate.....thats why mine is no longer stock, or should i say, Erins. 200lb welts, some s2 sways and some good shocks/struts/ bushings is very very nice. When you go to mo30 sways, the car seems alittle stiff. But what do i know.

hoffman912

not to hi jack the thread, buit how was her reaction?

tifosiman

My head hurts

joseph mitro

ROBBY CRACKS ME UP. HE LOVES THOSE CAPITAL LETTERS FOR EMPHASIS