jamiejim

What do you recommend as the best front/rear brake pads to eliminate squeaks? Best price and source to get them? My car is only used for street driving, no track use. Any other suggestions to eliminate squeaks?

Adam Richman

Carbotech Bobcats - excellent street performance pad (ceramics - no squeak, no dust). Absolutely love the pads, $90-somthing each axle set - call Matt at Carbotech (877-899-5024 - http://www.carbotecheng.com/main.htm).

Friendan

Can anyone else vouch for carbo tech?
I'm looking to do my front pads in a couple months, these seem like a decent deal but I've never heard of this brand.

nize

i've recently completed doing a boatload of research on brake pads for the porsche because i'll have to replace mine soon. i haven't been able to find any hard data comparing one pad vs. another, like a back-to-back comparison between brandX vs. brandY, so what did i do? i've talked to frequent track racers, i've talked to frequent autocrossers, i've talked to frequent rally competitors, and i've talked to race-prep auto shops. some of the best brands that keep popping up are obviously hawk, pagid, and axxis (it seems carbotech actually sells axxis pads). however, there is one pad that more people use above all others and that's porterfield. practically every single autocrosser around here exclusively uses porterfield brake pads, and those guys have tried almost every brand out there.

so get porterfield pads, not only are they quiet, they're also very easy on your rotors so you won't need to replace them as often. anyone wanna organize a group buy?
http://www.porterfield-brakes.com/pads.html

btw, the pad you want is the porterfield r4-s (s is for street).

edit: this is where i ordered mine from;
http://www.livermoreperformance.com/...ml#Porterfield

Adam Richman

Doubt it but if that will prevent you from trying them: I continue to bring up ideas here that other folks haven't tried and continually stand in a field of chirping crickets. I have raced on Carbotech, Performance Friction, Hawk and additionally have instructed in HPDEs on Porterfields and Porsche OE pads as well. There are alot of options outside of what I typically read here and I am pretty sure you won't hear too many folks vouch for pads they haven't tried yet. The Bobcat is a street performance pad that is not up to the task of Open Tracking in earnest somewhat like a Hawk HP+ (but without the irritating screeching and copious amounts of dust which is why I like it significantly more than the HP+) - you *could* take them to a track and folks have but its not what they were designed for. It was recommended as a street/auto-x pad (in the same range as Axxis Ultimates but again w/out the dust) and aside from the initial bedding have been the best street performance pads I have used so far.

I am a racer with the SCCA (and have my national license w/ NASA as well). I have won 2 ECR Championships in SEDiv SCCA, hold my national license and have run 3 different cars in the HPDE environment as a NASA and BMWCCA instructor (and a SCCA Competition School instructor). You might not choose to buy a brake pad based on my vouching for it, but I will tell you that I know brake pads a wee bit better than your average Joe. I am not too concerned that if I tell you its a good pad, there's no personal gain to it and I mean "its a good pad" and have driven on enough pads to make that comment with some certainty. I also have no relationship with the company other than I do run into Matt from time to time and have raced on their XP pads in the past (but do not now and I pay for anything I get from them). If you look at past posts, I have offered up similar information on Carbotech and Cobalt race pads as both are widely used in that environment, are often much cheaper than companies that "specialize" in marketing to the German car market.

Its one word by the way "Carbotech" Engineering.

nize

also, brake squeal isn't actually caused by the pad surface rubbing on the rotors, it's caused by the BACK of the pad rubbing against the calipers. no matter what pads you have, if you install shims between the back of the pad and the calipers, you can reduce or eliminate brake squeak.

nize

adam, thanks for your insight into carbotech. do they actually make their own pads? because on their website it seems they're selling axxis pads. and have you tried the porterfield r4-s pads? if so, what are your opinions?

Adam Richman

Yes, the Panther line is their own pad (Panther includes the Plus, XP1100 series) as is the Bobcat. They sell Axxis Ultimates and PFCs as well (and at one point carried Hawks as well). I had a set of Porterfield custom cut for a car I tracked a few years ago and they drove me nuts - loud as hell (these appear to be a carbon metalic but that's a guess; R4? R4S? - don't have the box they came in). Real good pad to a point but the sound and dust was very irritating and eventually on a 3500 lbs. car gave up the ghost on track (but that's not pertinent to this discussion). I have heard very good things about the R4 (on track) and know a few folks that used to auto-x on them (R4S).

I don't mind a nasty agressive pad on the race car but would prefer one w/ as little dust and sound as possible for the street/track car (944S) - the upside on the Carbotechs is that they are ceramic based so they dust very little (and the Bobcats w/ no shims have been silent for the first 1000 miles). Quite a drastic difference over running their race pads for the 1000 previous

Edit: IIRC, the Porterfields I ran were a Carbon-Kevlar front and a softer rear (could have been an R4 front, R4S rear) - we were trying to figure out what we could keep on a 3500 lbs. fwd car on track (tracks like Kershaw which are hard on brakes). It was the squeal and dust on the fronts that I recall - don't remember much dusting on the rear (but that's what I'd expect anyway).

nize

from what i've heard and seen, the porterfield r4 is loud and dusty while the r4-s is quiet with practically zero dust.

the r4 was designed for full track racing and need to be 'warmed up' before they'll stop the car quickly.

the r4-s was designed for street and autocross use, and can stop the car quickly even when cold.

89magic98

Well, I know that people are pretty polarized on their opinions of them, but I've used MetalMasters for the last 10+ years of owning my car, and have not had any problems with warped rotors or squeaking. They worked well for street use.

Anti-seize or "brake caliper grease" on the back of the pads before installation is a good idea. I think our cars were shipped with metal shims for behind the pads, which can be used instead of the shims. I removed mine on the last change, and had not had problems since then.

Adam Richman

Saying a pad will or will not work on the street because its a race pad is a bit erroneous. Typically its far from ideal but some have a low temp range that makes them very usable on the street (although probably not desirable). In my case, it was what Porterfield put together for me for my requirements (heavy daily driver that I could live w/ the noise but needed the best usable pad for track). On an XP1109 for instance, it has NO problem on the street (can only assume it has a very wide temp range) for initial bite in the 944, much more problematic was they overcame the tires far too easily in panic stops (certainly not ideal for the street on a non-ABS car). So based on temp range, the use of the car, the weight of the car and I certainly respect what the manufacturer suggests - you might not be able to say a pad needs "warming up" before it will work. On a Hawk 9012 (Blue) for instance, they will stop a car fine on the street - they just take a big toll on the rotors doing it.

But like you, for the street, I would always prefer the pad designed for street performance over a race pad.

Bryan Welch

After about a year of using MetalMasters for street use, I'm finding them squealing a lot when they are a bit wet and/or cold.

Fishey

Hawk HPS....

They are the best pad I have ever used by far on the street. There is no pad that I have found that is even comparable (Amazing Stoping power with Extremely low dust and Zero Squeel)


Compareing them to the MetalMasters they are 80% less dust with 80% more stopping power. I also have zero squeel (I had MetalMasters on before the HPS and the money between the two is worth it.)

RMills944

I've used Mintex form y last 2 sets. They are cheap, semi-metallic (very little dust) and I've never heard a peep out of them. $70 does all 4 corners - can't beat that.

Mongo

A can of Disc Brake Quiet from Autozone will also help eliminate the squeal inexpensively