Lightened Flywheel in 944 n/a.. worth it?
11-02-2004, 10:15 PM
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Lightened Flywheel in 944 n/a.. worth it?
I know the lightened flywheel upgrade in 951's seem to be a smart choice, but are they worth it for an n/a? What gains will it bring, and will it feel any different? If so, how's it feel?
11-02-2004, 10:18 PM
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Actually.. while i think of it.. since ill be in doing the work.. short shift kits.. big difference? worth it in an n/a? Any input would be great, along with recommended kits.
11-02-2004, 10:19 PM
#3
Campeck Rulez
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with the lighter weight it should rev just a little faster. I think I've heard of some of the cars stalling because of the fuel cut off at 1200 rpm and with the less weight it drops to low in the rpm range and stalls.
now. If you went with lightened internals and clutch and all that good stuff. the thing would rev like a ferrari. mmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
or not. haha. anyone know FOR SURE?
I want to do this to.
now. If you went with lightened internals and clutch and all that good stuff. the thing would rev like a ferrari. mmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
or not. haha. anyone know FOR SURE?
I want to do this to.
11-02-2004, 10:20 PM
#4
Campeck Rulez
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Originally Posted by SKooT1027
Actually.. while i think of it.. since ill be in doing the work.. short shift kits.. big difference? worth it in an n/a? Any input would be great, along with recommended kits.
worth it.....YES!
difference.....is fire different from water?!?!
the 944racing kit that goes on the tranny and actually shortens the throw and not tyhe linkage is AWESOME! the difference and feel is just.....amazing.
11-02-2004, 11:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Campeck
oh. I can definately help you out here.
worth it.....YES!
difference.....is fire different from water?!?!
the 944racing kit that goes on the tranny and actually shortens the throw and not tyhe linkage is AWESOME! the difference and feel is just.....amazing.
worth it.....YES!
difference.....is fire different from water?!?!
the 944racing kit that goes on the tranny and actually shortens the throw and not tyhe linkage is AWESOME! the difference and feel is just.....amazing.
11-03-2004, 01:29 AM
#7
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On a street car it's not worth it. You will wear out your clutch faster and with minimal "perforamance" gain. If you were building a full on track car, it would be something to consider if the rules allowed it.
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11-03-2004, 01:38 AM
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Thank you - exactly correct. If it's going to be a "track only" sort of car, sure. If it's a street car - keep in mind that the flywheel is there for a reason - to stabilize RPM and "smooth out" the influences of the power strokes occurring one after the other. By lightening it, you decrease moment of inertia and expose the drivetrain assembly to more stresses as a result of the action of the pistons.
The gains would be the ability to rev higher, although keep in mind the power band for these engines is considerably below redline, so I'm not sure that's a great benefit. Also, you gain the ability to "switch" speeds quickly - this certainly IS an advantage, but when you factor in the stresses to other components and the corresponding weaker structure of the flywheel itself, I question its value as an approach.
Then again, you could possibly save four or five pounds for your several hundred bucks worth of machining. . .
The gains would be the ability to rev higher, although keep in mind the power band for these engines is considerably below redline, so I'm not sure that's a great benefit. Also, you gain the ability to "switch" speeds quickly - this certainly IS an advantage, but when you factor in the stresses to other components and the corresponding weaker structure of the flywheel itself, I question its value as an approach.
Then again, you could possibly save four or five pounds for your several hundred bucks worth of machining. . .
11-03-2004, 01:38 AM
#9
Nordschleife Master
Not to hijack this thread, but on the subject of the short shifter. How hard is installation of the short shift kit for the tranny linkage? Ive been underneath the rear end twice changing tranny oil and checking that all bolts were tight and it seems like this would be a serious pain in the *** to change. Im a fairly competent do it yourself wrench...but im hesitant to tackle this job still. I have read the installation instructions on techsession and 944Racing, any other tips involved? Would removal of the muffler be at all necesary as it looks like it would be alot easier if it were taken off.
Im probably going with the Weltmesiter kit as the Autothority kit is on indefinite backorder and i have not heard much about the Speed-6 kit on ebay.
And so that im not totally hi-jacking this thread...here is my take on the short shifter kits available....
-Autothority made a great kit for about $160 that has adjustable foward/backwards and left/right movement. I ordered it about 2 weeks ago and have since learned they are on 'indefinite' backorder and there is a good chance they wont be coming around anytime soon.
-Welmeister has a short shift kit available from Paragon that is similar to the Autothority setup in that its adjstable in all four directions. It is however expensive at $190+ .
-944Racing made a very inexpensive (about $100-110) short throw kit that from what i have read, set the shifter throw to the shortest setting when compared to the Autothority setup...though im not sure how true this is. The thing is though, 944Racing is sort of in limbo right now and i do not believe they are selling these anymore. I sent an email to the owner a few weeks ago, but he has not responded. There was a great group buy on these during August for about $90...its a shame i didnt take advantage of it then!
- Speed-6 from what i understand is a distributor of 944Racing products. I read this so im not 100% sure if thats true or not. They sell the short shift on eBay from time to time for i think around $110. Buying directly from there webpage it will cost you $140 plus about $13 for shipping. If i do this, id rather buy the Weltmeister kit for the extra ~$40. I have however been told that Speed-6 was having issues with there supplier getting more of these (Which would make sense if it was 944Racing). I just sent Speed-6 an email asking, ill let you know what they say.
Honestly im not really sure which one to go with. I have not heard anything about the Speed-6 short shift kit at all. From what i read the Weltmeister is a great setup...but for that extra $60-70 id save i wonder if that shorter side to side throw is worth it. But if it is true that Speed-6 is having issues obtaining more, i guess that dosent leave you with much of a choice. Any further input from people who have the Weltmesiter or Speed-6 kit would be greatly appreciated.
Skoot, i will likley be ordering a short shift within the next few weeks and installing it on a saturday (or sunday also if need be
). If you get either kit installed before me maybe you can help me out with it...same goes likewise if i get it done before. If we get it at the same time, we can flip a coin to see whos we install first !
Im probably going with the Weltmesiter kit as the Autothority kit is on indefinite backorder and i have not heard much about the Speed-6 kit on ebay.
And so that im not totally hi-jacking this thread...here is my take on the short shifter kits available....
-Autothority made a great kit for about $160 that has adjustable foward/backwards and left/right movement. I ordered it about 2 weeks ago and have since learned they are on 'indefinite' backorder and there is a good chance they wont be coming around anytime soon.
-Welmeister has a short shift kit available from Paragon that is similar to the Autothority setup in that its adjstable in all four directions. It is however expensive at $190+ .
-944Racing made a very inexpensive (about $100-110) short throw kit that from what i have read, set the shifter throw to the shortest setting when compared to the Autothority setup...though im not sure how true this is. The thing is though, 944Racing is sort of in limbo right now and i do not believe they are selling these anymore. I sent an email to the owner a few weeks ago, but he has not responded. There was a great group buy on these during August for about $90...its a shame i didnt take advantage of it then!
- Speed-6 from what i understand is a distributor of 944Racing products. I read this so im not 100% sure if thats true or not. They sell the short shift on eBay from time to time for i think around $110. Buying directly from there webpage it will cost you $140 plus about $13 for shipping. If i do this, id rather buy the Weltmeister kit for the extra ~$40. I have however been told that Speed-6 was having issues with there supplier getting more of these (Which would make sense if it was 944Racing). I just sent Speed-6 an email asking, ill let you know what they say.
Honestly im not really sure which one to go with. I have not heard anything about the Speed-6 short shift kit at all. From what i read the Weltmeister is a great setup...but for that extra $60-70 id save i wonder if that shorter side to side throw is worth it. But if it is true that Speed-6 is having issues obtaining more, i guess that dosent leave you with much of a choice. Any further input from people who have the Weltmesiter or Speed-6 kit would be greatly appreciated.
Skoot, i will likley be ordering a short shift within the next few weeks and installing it on a saturday (or sunday also if need be
). If you get either kit installed before me maybe you can help me out with it...same goes likewise if i get it done before. If we get it at the same time, we can flip a coin to see whos we install first !
Last edited by Techno Duck; 11-03-2004 at 02:03 AM.
11-03-2004, 02:11 AM
#10
Race Car
"Lightened Flywheel in 944 n/a.. worth it? "
well, i just bought one off ebay tonight from broadfoot racing. 6 pounds. i'll let you know how it feels when i get everything back together and running. as for increasing stress on the engine internals, wouldn't that happen only if the internals were not accurately balanced? isn't that the purpose of balancing the engine.....to remove differences in component weights?
well, i just bought one off ebay tonight from broadfoot racing. 6 pounds. i'll let you know how it feels when i get everything back together and running. as for increasing stress on the engine internals, wouldn't that happen only if the internals were not accurately balanced? isn't that the purpose of balancing the engine.....to remove differences in component weights?
11-03-2004, 04:55 AM
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I finally got around to installing the 944racing short-shift kit this weekend, after getting one back in August (I had an issue with my tranny, which is why I waited so long). And I had a minor problem with fitment -- and this was with the tranny outside the car! The hole in the shift linkage was not big enough to easily fit onto the shift selector on the tranny -- too narrow by a hairwidth. Nothing a dremel tool couldn't straighten out -- but that would have been a major headache with the tranny still installed. If it weren't for that, I think the install would still have been really easy even with the tranny still in the car.
BTW, lightweight flywheel made sense for my 968 because of the silly dual-mass flywheel, but it came at an increase in vibration and some difficulty in getting the idle correct.
BTW, lightweight flywheel made sense for my 968 because of the silly dual-mass flywheel, but it came at an increase in vibration and some difficulty in getting the idle correct.
11-03-2004, 09:48 AM
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why would a balanced flywheel create more stress on the engine? if anything, i thought it would be less because the crank does not have to rotate such a heavy mass. i was planning on eventually doing lightened flywheel/clutch/pressure plate for quick revving. my dream is to have a car that revs like the carrera gt. that thing just blips and drops so fast!
11-03-2004, 09:55 AM
#13
Race Director
Lightweight flywheel = faster revving.
It does not create any additional stress for the engine, don't know why it would.
It's a very worthwhile upgrade for a normally aspirated 944. However, there are two things to keep in mind, from my experience:
1. The rev's drop fast when you press in the clutch pedal. This means that you need to re-learn the way you shift. Learn to match rev's, especially when down-shifting. You should really be doing this anyway, so it helps get rid of bad habits.
2. Be careful when you let someone else drive your car. Especially if they have bad shifting habits.
It does not create any additional stress for the engine, don't know why it would.
It's a very worthwhile upgrade for a normally aspirated 944. However, there are two things to keep in mind, from my experience:
1. The rev's drop fast when you press in the clutch pedal. This means that you need to re-learn the way you shift. Learn to match rev's, especially when down-shifting. You should really be doing this anyway, so it helps get rid of bad habits.
2. Be careful when you let someone else drive your car. Especially if they have bad shifting habits.
11-03-2004, 10:22 AM
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The additional stress would be created because each time a piston fires, the shock of the power stroke is "pounded" onto all the remaining drivetrain components. The reason the flywheel is there is primarily to dampen out this effect, keep things smooth, etc.
It'd probably be worst with an extremely light flywheel; internal balancing does help, but it's never perfect especially in a stock engine. FWIW, if you're interested in the ability to rev fast I'd get all the extra weight you can out of the car itself first (doesn't cost anything), then look at getting a knife-edged crankshaft, balanced pistons & rods, and the lightened flywheel - in that order.
It'd probably be worst with an extremely light flywheel; internal balancing does help, but it's never perfect especially in a stock engine. FWIW, if you're interested in the ability to rev fast I'd get all the extra weight you can out of the car itself first (doesn't cost anything), then look at getting a knife-edged crankshaft, balanced pistons & rods, and the lightened flywheel - in that order.
11-03-2004, 10:30 AM
#15
Ask "ken c" about the lightened flywheel. If you search for threads he's posted in, there's some info in there. I followed him to his house one day, and I kept up with him just fine with a stock flywheel in mine. The differnece was minimal. The only thing I have is a magnaflow right now. He also has short shift kits at the tranny end AND the shifter end - the shifter is like a Miata. PM him for info - his car is a street car.