Jfrahm

I have had a couple of 944S2's, currently driving a 1990 S2 cab. I recently bought a 1986 951 to fool around with since my project (951 driveline into the Cab) is on a very long timeline and I needed some instant gratification. I have driven the dead-stock 951 a bit now and have some first impressions. Both of my S2's and this 951 are factory stock and running well

These are very different cars in terms of power delivery I like the more pronounced rush of the Turbo but it's lazy low end enhances this feeling. I find my self waiting for the power. The S2 has lots of low end and has perhaps a similar rush at higher RPMs, bit it is not as noticeable.

I really like the 951 final drive ratio, if for no other reason than I can drive around in my neighborhood without shifting th 2nd. I feel I should shift the S2 into 2nd to keep the noise and revs down, so I shift several times just getting to the main road. It's nice not having to shift as often in traffic too. However the final drive makes the 951's performance from a dead stop even less impressive.

Working on the S2 motor is easier. Just checking the timing belt on the 951 required removal of the airbox, AFM and IC pipes. The basic maintenance on an S2 would be a lot easier for someone lacking a garage and the spare time. It was no problem for me to tear into the 951 under the lights in my garage with the stereo cranked as the rain poured down, but at my old place, rain, darkness, mosquitoes, etc. would have made this task a lot more daunting.

My early impression is that stock for stock, the S2 is easier to live with and about as fun to drive. If you plan to modify the 951 takes over, but I doubt many people realize what they are getting themselves into when they take on a wastegate or turbo swap. I'm sure working on the 951 gets easier and easier, but it is still time consuming and the underhood heat causes more vacuum leaks, broken plastic parts, and other little problems that would conspire to make the 951 more hands-on. Much tougher to have as your only car.

-Joel.

ian

Joel,

What kind of time line are you looking at for your 951 motorswap into the S2?

I'm thinking of doing something similar with the 968 I just picked up, but I don't know of too many people out there who have swapped 951 motors into the 16v cars. I would think the process for you in the S2 and me in the 68 would be very similar. I plan on getting a full driveline from a 951 (engine, harness, dme, klr, crossmember, and maybe the torque tube / 5 speed if I need the extra money I could generate by selling the 6 speed gear box.

Also thanks for the write up. I have similar feelings, except in the fun to drive aspect, I love the sensations that come from the turbocharged motors, the NA powerplan while fun and responsive lacks something in my mind. But then again i'm addicted to boost, not everyone has that problem....

Jfrahm

Honestly I thought I'd be done by now, but I have been lazy and distracted. I'm also waffling on if it's worth the trouble for my somewhat battered 140K mile S2, a nicer car might be a better starting point (although I like the color and love the linen leather interior.) I have the driveline out of the 951S and the next major goal is to get any valuable parts off the shell and dumping the rest. Then I will tear into the motor and see how it's doing (it's a low mile factory replacement block that should be in great shape.) I'm considering various 2.8l and 3.0l options too. Given how I would like the car to perform, a 3.0 with higher compression and lower boost might be the most pleasing motor.

Of course after wresling with the car a while, a used Boxster S with an extended warranty starts to sound good, or the idea of leaving the perfectly running S2 as it is and going for a drive. It's harder to work on car projects now that I have house projects and other diversions.

My comparison above is really stock for stock, where the boost addiction does not really figure in. I learned what little I know about turbo cars playing with a Saab 900 earlier this year, and let me tell you, going from 7 psi to 15 made that car pretty interesting. At stock boost the 900 and the 951 are both quite smooth and the top-end rush is similar to a 968 variocam or 928 flappy hit. Not the stuff addictions are made of. At 14psi the 900 was another story, and I expect the 951 will deliver as well.

-Joel.

will951

I too enjoyed the feeling of my old N/A. While not nearly as fast, it was really easy to drive and had some low end torque to get you going. Swapping lanes in traffic is also much easier in an N/A due to the quick torque response. Although.....getting onto the highway from an onramp is quite enjoyable in the 951!!!

I have been looking at second cars recently....looking for something all wheel drive, somewhat quick, and german if possible. Of course my first thought was A4 1.8T. Then I got to thinking about exactly what you're saying Joel.....a 2.8 would be much easier to diagnose and work on. The 2.8 would also have MANY fewer parts to break (turbo, vacuum lines, wastegates etc etc).

Kind of rambling there....sorry. Just wanted to say I somewhat agree with you Joel. I would never give up my 951.....but I wouldn't mind having an easier platform to wrench on.

Jfrahm

Yes, a modded 951 is not IMO a good 'only' car. Every now and then I get these wild urges to get something newer with a warranty, then I realize the cost and how ubiquitous those newer cars are (even an Audi TT, SLK, or Boxster) I go back out to the garage and fix something.

I hope to get some more driving impressions (and some numbers) on the stock S2/951 in the next few days. It's been interesting so far.

-Joel.

Dmitry S.

Very interesting. I'm also deciding between a 951 and S2 right now, and i agree with what you said about the 951 being a bad "only" car. The S2 is much nicer to drive around town because of the low end torque. I also believe the S2 is a more reliable car, as it has less parts (No turbos, wastegates, blow off valves, cycling valves, etc), and your point that it is easier to work on than a 951 could be a big argument in my decision.

I do love the way that the world seems to blur when the boost kicks in on the 951 though.

pete944

I'm really happy with the S2. I love the instant power and being able to pass on the highway without downshifting. I sometimes think about adding a turbo to the 3.0L but then I realize that I haven't really driven the car anywhere near 10/10ths. 7/10th's maybe. I think once I get this engine back to factory new spec I may just leave it alone and start a new project.

Let's see, take a 924S, add some fiberglass Carrera GT fenders, a 2.8L 951 engine, 928S4 brakes, Bilstein shocks......................

theedge

That is my long term goal, for when I have gobs of money is the turbo'd 3 liter in my 951.

All I can say is that the S2 that ive ridden in and followed in my car is quite fast

Porsche-O-Phile

Why not just convert the S2 engine to turbo?

B951S

Stock turbos can be made soooo much better with basic mods. 5th gear at above 60mph will push past traffic like crazy in a lightly modded K26/6, no need to downshift... I have had an S2 and while very nice to drive with lots of low end torque. I would love to get both, but I just had to had the massive power of a modded turbo. Once once had one, there is no going back, be warned!

jsonnen

An S2 is nice but a 951 with around $1200 in mods puts you around 300hp and the only lag you will ever have is in first gear, once on way you rarely find yourself under 2k rpm, honestly all this talk about lag is really unwarranted as I can attest that on the highway theres no need to ever downshift.
Once you get a taste of a 951 at 18psi a S2 will never suffice!

944S2NUT

Don't forget about the high maintenance lag while its in the garage after heavy mods

jsonnen

What heavy mods? Guru 18 psi chip- reliaboost mbc- tial 46mm wastegate-3 bar fpr-test pipe- voila 300 plus hp!
Honestly my buddys S2 wasn't exactly cheap to run either and a S2 can never run with supercars even if you attached a JATO rocket!
Have you ever seen the carnage in a 16v head when the T-belt go's? Got Boost?

944S2NUT

What I am saying is there is no way u can drive that car year round without some serious wear and tear. Lets be honest ppl who do those mods well most of them have lets say a rather heavy foot.
Where as an N/A u can have a heavy foot and not worry as much about something going wrong.
The carnage is really no diff than a 8v head gettin wasted by a dead tbelt Either way they are going to be in the 1000s.

jsonnen

Either way these cars are getting pretty old now(17 years) and things will start to go. But dollar for dollar a lightly modded 951 is the best sportscar in the world bar none.
I have every single bill for my car from the PO and myself (one owner prior to me) and since 87 its cost an average of around $2000 a year in regular maintenance and upkeep(3000 mile oil changes since new ) but considering my car runs 0-60 in 4.9- 5.2 (G-tech)sec and tops out at over 165 mph its a relative bargain considering the price of a 996 or any other German sports car. Have you ever seen how tiny the valves are in a S2 ? They are like toothpicks compared to an 8v. I love the 16v's but they aren't even in the same league as a lightly modded 951....and thats a fact!