Blue S2

Hey everyone! I just want to see what everyone thinks of this situation. I DO NOT WANT TO COME OFF AS A COMPLAINER!! I honestly am not bothered, as such things are too silly to waste time with. I just think its a funny situation that should be shared with fellow 944 and Porsche owners.

I began concours competition last year and have continually improved my car since then. Ive never scored less than 10 below perfect except my first time and i always come within a couple couple points of highest score overall. (not bragging, i work my *** off) Basically this season would be my 5th and 6th large concours. This is where the fun begins...

This year our local region PCA has all new coordinators basically. (we are also one of the largest regions with 2000+ members) This season would be the first concours competitions under new management...

I compete in early water-cooled division, againt all the front engine Porsches. (duh?) At the first show only one other car entered in my division. Funny there where like 4 other 944s there, but no one entered. (you guys really need to start cleaning!) Anyways, they decided that this was no good, and lumped my and the 928 into the "late air-cooled 911" class!!!!!!! WTF!!!!!!!!!! There were like dozens of identical 911s (as always). They are sooo opposite of the 944!!!!! Anyways, i overcame all that and finished in second place!!!! But wait... check this out... my score was only 1/2-point behind the 1st place 911 !!! They took 2 points off because my spoiler is not painted and .5 on something even more trivial. What 944 spoiler is painted????? They couldn't handle a 944 being almost 3 points ahead of the leading 911. Whatever.

Second concours of the season. This was the "BIG BIG" one of the season apparently. Of all the registered watercoolers, i was the only one who showed up again! Fine by me, im only concerned with reaching as close to a perfect score anyways. (im not that competitive, crap, ive helped others clean stuff before at shows too!) Anyways, like 45 minutes before judging began still no other front-engines had showed. SO...what do they do... they grabbed some dude that brought a 914-6 for display and had him move his car next to mine. They then told him he was "entering the competition," which he was not there for, against my car. To his surprise and mine... isnt a 914 more classed against an early air-cooled 911? Nope, despite him being mid-engine air, and 20 years older with nothing in common, he was my competition. A 914 that showed up for fun and without really cleaning anything stomped me!!!! Yes, you heard it, he came first in class !!!! Against my car! Check this...my score would have been 3 or 4 points under perfect this time (again, that might have been best in show...) but... they took a wholloping 5 points off of my paint!!!!! Wait a sec...ive had perfect paint scores at every show... 25% reduction in paint score??? I can understand 1 point, since i have one scratch (which most judges overlook anyways). 5 points off of paint put me directly behind the 914 which had swirl marks gallore, hand prints, smudges, CLEAR MASK, etc... I dont get it? Is it just me going to far into this?
Oh, and at this show, the judges were even scoring my car while they looked. They score sheet wasnt even broken up. After "viewing the car", they would retreat away from all the cars in private and "discuss."

At both shows ive had people tell me its cause im a 944 too! HAHA, lets see...

Show 1. Couldn't handle saying a 944 beat ALL the 911s.
Show 2. Didn't want to put me in the 911 class again, so they throw a 914 my way... Funny though... a 914 6! If it was a 914 they would have screamed VW, but a 6 is...a 911 !!!! Again, couldnt have a first place 944, OR a best in show 944...Something is fishy...

Oh, and at the second show, the woman who won last year in the 911 class was back again, with her immaculate 911. PERFECT. Undoubtably. Same car this year, even better condition. She didnt even place...Funny i didnt see a better 911 than hers though...

I ask the people of Rennlist... Is this CROOKED CONCOURS????



HA, dont make me post proof of my finish either!... I have those recent waxed pictures...

xsboost90

i used to show cars all the time. Ive had quite a few very nice street cars that would do well at shows, and ive learned a few things. If the judge has a buddy in the show, they will place. If the judge doesnt like your type of car, you wont. If there is a large local club showing, they will all place- they dont want to **** off the locals. And if you are at the show for anything more than to have fun and show off your car, you will be disappointed most of the time.

That is why i dont show cars anymore.

Porsche-O-Phile

I kind of think shows are ridiculous. I very much do like to keep my car clean, even to the point of being neurotic at times but there's no way I'd enter one of these competitions. I do it for myself and as a matter of personal pride, not to get a trophy for my "auto detailing" skills.

Ultimately I just like to have a nice looking, clean, comfortable, well-maintained and tuned car to actually DRIVE, which a lot of these "Concours" cars never do. I just don't see the point of a car that drives around on a flatbed and spends its life in a garage. That's not what they were made to do. Granted they DO look nice and there's nothing wrong with keeping up the looks, but they also run extremely well, handle well, etc - so what's wrong with actually getting out there and driving them once in a while?

MAS

Your "unpainted" 944 spoiler? Didn't you challenge them on that? Unless I'm misunderstanding something here, this makes no sense (on the judge's part).

-MAS

Graufuchs

Id be a bit pissed over it too. I mean I could see a skewing once but not twice. -chris

triscadek

Thats what you get for not driving a "real" Porsche.

We're the red headed step-children anyway. I thought I was just being a cynical smartass with the last line in my sig.

pete944

The spoiler thing is BS. I thought originality was paramount at a concours. If you had painted the spoiler you would have lost points for that!

Don't sweat it, your car is tops. There's always going to be more 911's and chances are that the judges own 911's or are simply much more familiar with them. Any thing that is judged on a subjective basis is going to be biased in one way or another.
Come out to the 944 Fest next year, you'll be a lock for best of show.

Tom M'Guinn

There is a funny movie called Best in Show. It is about dog show people, but the lesson extends to all arbitrarily judged hobbies. Watch it, then work not to become one of those people.

I used to show a 911 -- but stopped for all the reasons mentioned in this thread. It's a good way to develop detailing skills if nothing else.

NeedPorscheSpeed

BlueS2, I'm sorry to hear about that bit of discrimination. After going to various shows for the past 5 years, it is something I have gotten used to: it takes an act of Congress for a 944, or any of its derivatives, to place higher than a 911. Sad, but true.

Red1

I always thought concours events were political just by the nature of what they are. The "judging" would be too arbitrary for my temperament, so I'll never try it. Hats off to you Tony for representing us bastard stepchildren.

Predator

Stuff an LT-4 in your car, and go blow their ?!#$@!!??*^ doors off. Thats what I did. My car was damn near perfect and I could never get the respect of those back-motored SOB's. Just a bunch of stuck-up snobs. If you weren't one of them, you were nothing. So, now I go hunting for them every chance I get..... and I show them no mercy!

Before I saw the light.... and became converted!

http://forums.rennlist.com/upload/po...pg_reduced.jpg

BeerBurner

Tony, it sucks to hear about this. And after seeing your car in person, I can definately say that it makes my baby look like steaming pile of putrid donkey manure. Such a shame... But I thought you guys said that this chapter of the PCA finally ditched the 911-snobbishness??? That's why I didn't join before...

BB.

Dave

I don't think we have a problem with this in my region, might be that the concours chair is one of us . Speaking of concours chair, maybe a little chat with the right people would help, obviously a judge who expects to see a painted spoiler on a 944 is incompetent and should not be a judge.

UDPride

What you speak of is actually very common. Most concours will try to break up the cars so theres as much competition between them. When the classes are heavy in one area and light in another, sometimes they will redistribute by year. I see rear engines and mid engines in the same class all the time.

By the way to address another point, dont think for a minute people at concours park their car all year. At the national level yes (but these people usually have a daily driver too), but Id say at least half the cars Ive seen at concours have over 60,000 miles (all years). A buddy of mine has more concours trophys than a closet can hold and he drives his car 10,000 miles a year. Some drive a little, some drive a lot. Lowest mileage 911 before 1990 I saw at the tough IMMKE show in Dublin, OH was 33,000 miles. One had 146,000. So if Brad showed up in his 13,000 mile Turbo S, he would be the rare exception, not the rule. Some of these cars are insanely kept despite the mileage. If you saw a couple, youd be picking the lint off them too after a drive. Ive see a number of low mileage cars that were piles. Miles and condition are not often related. Its the owner that makes the difference.

Blue S2

I autocross my car. I take my car on the track. (ooh...shenendoah is almost done...!) I drive my car too, just not nearly daily. I don't go to concours for competition, i enjoy cleaning. I detail my S2 after every drive by choice. Once its that clean, it doesnt take much to keep it that clean.

Last year the concours chair was a 928 guy. Now we have a new everyone! Its funny though as Beer Burner brought up, our region has never been 911-snobby. This year has been the first time ive noticed stuff like this. Thats why i prefer not stating which region, because it is a great group of people.

I think it was funny i was probably the youngest competitor at the concours by a margin.

I just brought this up cause i thought it was funny. I normally expected judging like this to be pretty consistent and unbiased. I mean, its spotless or its not. Not that open for opinion if you ask me. White glove test.

Anyways, im not upset or anything, actually i think this has inspired me to go on with my plans. Im going to have a lot of the car clearmasked and then paint the head silver with blue letters. I think i might as well tint the windows (legal, 35% metallic black all around) as well. Concours was the only thing keeping me from it.