Bennys86944

Hey

I was watching wheeler dealers and in the episode they were working on a Audi Coupe, Marc Priestley decided to modify and "modernize" the car by adding a stand alone engine
management system. It got me thinking, I am still not fully done with my 1986 944 N/A maybe it would be a good idea to make some of those modifications before it is complete.
I see Lindsey racing has a MAF kit but for the engine management are their any recommendations? If any one has done these mods I am curious if it was worth it? Which suppliers
do you guys recommend? Just curious on peoples thoughts on this, I have no desire to do any kind of engine swap like a LS or 1.8T.

Benny

Zirconocene

There's a few good threads around on Rennlist, if you search for how to Microsquirt your 944. Other folks like VEMS, which is a more plug and play option.

Good luck

Newt Gomez

I'm throwing on a Haltech 1500 with a 36-2 kit, Drive by wire throttle, and will be tuning in speed density. Sequential fuel and ignition should make it respond well. I'll let everyone know how it goes early next year. Modernizing with good ecus is a fun project.

V2Rocket

having done multiple variants, what most people will realistically benefit from most is a plug and play MAF conversion from Lindsey Racing using the stock ECU (or the Ftech9 rebuilt ECU).
you dont need the tuning capability of a full aftermarket ECU unless you are going to make big changes to the engine.

if you are making big changes which would warrant the new ECU, go with Megasquirt or i've heard good things about MaxxECU.
Having run VEMS for 5 years on my 944 i would not recommend it for beginners or even intermediate-skill folks.

walfreyydo

Going to standalone has a steep learning curve, if you arent prepared for this (and the research involved in learning how to tune and setup the car), it can be overwhelming. There are a few megasquirt conversion threads around, and they are worth reading, fully, and then asking yourself if you think its a path you want to go down. That would be my recommendation.

Im happy with Megasquirt, but I can also see that it might not be for everyone. IMO, Megasquirt has the best available resources and community support as opposed to other systems out there (although they all work fairly similar enough you can apply some of the same knowledge from MS to other systems).

Bennys86944

I totally agree 👍 I'm lucky I have a friend who is into this type of stuff programming ecus etc. and our other friend is excellent with auto electronics and wiring . I am starting to think for what I am going for I should probably just do the MAF upgrade but I'm also intrigued by a drive by wire system it just would make everything so much easier. I have been reading alot about the Megasquirt and the Vems but alot of those threads are from a while ago, I guess its finding the right tune if I did go that route it can also get pricey 😳 thank you for the feedback.

Benny

Nowanker

Steep learning curve indeed!

walfreyydo

Youll be tuning it yourself unless you happen to have a tuner with a dyno nearby that knows Megasquirt. If thats the case, you can pay them to get your car setup if needed. I dont have that luxury and needed to install wideband/variable TPS, calibrate base timing, build my own ignition timing and fuel maps, configure AE, overrun fuel cutoff, open loop idle (for now), etc. Not terribly hard if you do some research and know some basic fundamentals.

Sounds like you have a lot of friends with the knowledge to help you out. If they are familiar or comfortable with standalones and Megasquirt in particular and are willing to help you out, this is the suggested route (I feel). A MAF kit, albeit nice and will give you good gains over the standard AFM, will still not let you completely tune fuel and timing maps, allowing you to squeeze just a bit more out of the engine. Other perks of full tuning ability is launch control/flat shift, speed density engine control (complete removal of air metering devices) and full diagnostics, which cant be over stated. This means you can see all your sensor outputs and immediately see if a particular sensor or system is failing (as opposed to the old way of having to diagnose and test each individual sensor until you find your problem). Its similar to modern OBD systems.




Additional things you can do is run a digital dash, hook up CAN-BUS, convert to coil packs/coil on plug, sequential fueling, low impedance injectors (more injector options available) and much more if you are so inclined... That is what excites me.


So for relatively the same cost, you can get a MAF kit (relatively plug and play) or go Megasquirt (much more work but more capabilities). Either are good options though.

Nowanker

I did the basic tuning myself, but it took a loooooong time.
Finalized it on the dyno. Still cost $500. To do a full setup would probably have been 2X that.

V2Rocket

FWIW:

~10 years ago when i had a Rogue MAF + tuner on my car i played with injectors, cam timing, spark timing, fuel etc. this was on a stock-internal early 2.5 8v.
- changing to more modern style, larger injectors didn't make any power.
- a 60mm tb (vs stock 55) didn't make any power.
- the out of the box MAF tune and added airflow made about 5whp at peak over stock DME/AFM (but the torque gain lower down the curve was huge). no real gains adding any more timing anywhere vs the box tune.
- tweaking fueling from the MAF tune had minimal effect but the factory DME/AFM tune is pig rich at high rpm.
- the car made the most power with the dialed in MAF kit/tune and the factory cam advanced 2 degrees. 136whp vs 121 with stock DME/AFM, all done on the same dyno in similar conditions.

you can go to coil near plug/COP and sequential injection but those don't really do anything for power. the digital dash option is cool though.

out of the box MAF vs stock DME/AFM:



dialed in tuning, cam advanced 2 degrees:

blade7

VEMS Autotune not capable of a good setup?

ealoken

I have ecumaster on my 944 turbo.
IT has a good autotune, but it still needs a good setup on all temps, sensors etc.

V2Rocket

VEMS is a very capable ECU but i would only recommend it to people with "advanced" tuning experience.
i would recommend it more for people in Europe than people in the US, too.

there is nearly zero customer support available in the US - it seems to be more used in EU but even that is pretty sparse. but there are likely more tuning shops or regular people in UK/FR/DE/etc that have seen VEMS before and know its ins, outs, and quirks. the online forums are not very helpful either, so you have to spend a lot of time researching other people's issues that might possibly be connected, or just do trial and error yourself to dial things in.

when i did my engine swap i could have used my 944 VEMS kit on the new engine but opted to try Megasquirt instead. there is easily 100x the amount of information/documentation/users/help available for MS over VEMS and setting mine up couldn't have been easier.

Toolbelt0

Have you considered a new engine harness and dme?

blade7

Thanks. I bought a kit for my turbo from Peep a few years back, but I've never got around to fitting it. I've got more free time now, so it's going onto my car this year.