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No Start part 2: Electric Boogaloo

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Old 02-14-2023, 06:07 PM
  #31  
Zirconocene
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For the connectors, they're basically impossible to depin. If there's an issue where the wires have come out, the best bet is to splice in a new connector. Porsche (I don't know for how long they did it, or how many model years it covered) decided to put little indentations into the connector housing that make it impossible for the terminals to be removed. If you look closely, you can probably find a little rectangular indentation above the wires.

Cheers
Old 02-14-2023, 07:47 PM
  #32  
harveyf
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Originally Posted by calebPH
Not taking it to a mechanic quite yet because your boy doesn't know how to just give up! Bought a new (to me) DME that'll arrive Friday. Praying to Ferdinand Porsche himself that this has been the issue all along!
Sometimes it helps to just walk away from it for a while. But don't give up because they are all worth saving.
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Old 02-14-2023, 08:43 PM
  #33  
Millermatic
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Originally Posted by Zirconocene
For the connectors, they're basically impossible to depin. If there's an issue where the wires have come out, the best bet is to splice in a new connector. Porsche (I don't know for how long they did it, or how many model years it covered) decided to put little indentations into the connector housing that make it impossible for the terminals to be removed. If you look closely, you can probably find a little rectangular indentation above the wires.

Cheers
I’ve been able to get pretty much everything I’ve needed to get depinned taken care of with something like this:

https://smile.amazon.com/MENKEY-Term...ps%2C93&sr=8-5

The tool is absolute garbage... each piece might last for two or three uses... but it works if you are desperate. I’d buy two... since the first will probably break before you are done with the job.

(For background... this is what I used when I had to splice my Lindsey engine harness into the rest of the harness Lindsey doesn’t give you. I’d get a Kroon harness if I could do it all over again). Also worked for getting my mirrors unpinned.

Last edited by Millermatic; 02-14-2023 at 08:47 PM.
Old 02-16-2023, 07:16 PM
  #34  
calebPH
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New DME did not magically work!
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Old 02-17-2023, 09:23 AM
  #35  
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Man, sorry to hear that!!!
Old 02-17-2023, 10:46 AM
  #36  
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Your initial complaint is a weak/no spark condition. Have you measured the spark with a spark checker to quantify this?

Just watched your video, the spark looked OK but you can't tell in a video and at such a small gap. The cranking sounded odd though, I suggest a compression test.
Old 02-18-2023, 01:01 PM
  #37  
calebPH
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New find that I should have found earlier if my compression tester was functional or if I had half a brain between my ears... exhaust pipe coming out of cylinder one is cold, while the others are warming up after some attempts to start. So obviously something is happening in cylinder 1 to stop it from firing. Getting some light popping sounds every once in a while if I'm pumping the accelerator while starting that sounds like it's on the verge of wanting to start. Still unsure of how to proceed. Trying to make some extra cash so taking it to a shop doesn't entirely obliterate me, but until then would love to keep trying little things here and there. Spark does seem to be stronger now, so maybe it's back to not getting fuel in cylinder one? That was the original problem. Tired of taking on and off the fuel injectors, but could be worth an extra test today to see if it's spraying anything.
Old 02-19-2023, 12:40 PM
  #38  
harveyf
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Refresh our memories. Did you do a compression test?
That said, these engines will run, not well, on 2 or 3 cylinders.
Do you have a timing light? The only reason I ask is that with a timing light that has the inductive lead that goes around the spark plug wires, you can do some interesting diagnostics. Clamp the sensor around the lead coming out of the coil and the light should fire, when cranking on the starter. Then you can move the sensor one at a time to the 4 spark plug leads. Obviously the light should fire, at 1/4 the rate that it did for the coil wire.
Next, do the standard thing of hooking the light up to #1 cylinder, and aim the light through the timing opening at the rear of the block. It should flash on the horizontal line (on the flywheel) with OT stamped next to it. Be aware there is another line on the flywheel, 180 deg out, that does not have OT stamped next to it. If the light illuminates this line, your timing is 180 deg out.
All of this is done cranking on the starter.

You can feel the fuel injectors clicking open/closed, with your hand, as a quick check. You can also hear them, using a short hose to isolate the sound.

These 3 checks represent the basics of compression/spark/fuel.

You might want to get a remote starter button.

BTW pumping the pedal does nothing, except with the first small amount of motion, it clicks off a switch that tells the ECU that the throttle is not closed. But there might be a world where the car will start without the throttle depressed a small amount. Rare.
Old 02-19-2023, 06:44 PM
  #39  
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Symptom is exhaust pipe #1 is cold.
1. As per Harvey, was a compression test done?
2. Is there spark at #1 plug?
3.
Old 02-19-2023, 06:52 PM
  #40  
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Symptom is exhaust #1 is cold
1. Is there spark at #1 plug?
2. If so, switch #1 FI with #2 FI and vice- versa.
3. Is exhaust #1 cold or exhaust #2 cold?
4. If exhaust #2 is cold, then FI bad
5. If exhaust #1 is cold, then internal issue with cylinder #1

A cylinder can have acceptable compression pressure with a failed valve spring, failed hydraulic lifter or restricted full lift of valve.

Last edited by T&T Racing; 02-19-2023 at 06:59 PM.
Old 02-19-2023, 09:03 PM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by calebPH
New find that I should have found earlier if my compression tester was functional or if I had half a brain between my ears...
Are you saying your compression tester is broken? As others have asked, what are the results of your compression test, for each cylinder?

Originally Posted by calebPH
exhaust pipe coming out of cylinder one is cold, while the others are warming up after some attempts to start. So obviously something is happening in cylinder 1 to stop it from firing.
I can confirm these cars will start on three cylinders. Mine was cold on #1 too in a no start situation a few years back. But. all four cylinders had good compression.

Originally Posted by calebPH
Still unsure of how to proceed.
It seems you need to re-confirm timing, compression, spark, fuel.
1) Confirm timing marks are in the correct position.
2) Confirm Compression on all four cylinders, write down the psi readings, please post them here on your thread.
3) Confirm tach bounce, confirming crank sensor is working.
4) Confirm spark at the coil while cranking. Then at the end of each spark plug wire. A remote starter cable is useful here.
5) Spray actual start fluid into the J-Boot and try starting. If it runs for a few seconds, you are left at fuel delivery problems.

Originally Posted by calebPH
Trying to make some extra cash so taking it to a shop doesn't entirely obliterate me, but until then would love to keep trying little things here and there.
Before you give the car to the mechanic, Confirm 1-5 above. If it doesn't start, which numbers in the list failed a test?
Old 02-20-2023, 09:24 AM
  #42  
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+1 to @Chalt and @T&T Racing
We are basically describing the approach any mechanic will take.
I know you started out thinking it was something simple and it may be but at this point, you just need to be methodical and rule out nothing.
I know it is awkward at a distance but the price is right

Last edited by harveyf; 02-20-2023 at 09:26 AM.
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Old 02-28-2023, 06:48 PM
  #43  
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I hope someone was taking bets on this update... I took a break for a couple of weeks because I got laid off, and then it began raining in Los Angeles for a week without stopping. Real good stuff! ANYWAY, I picked up a new compression test, and wouldn't you know it... Cylinder 1 is gone! Out to lunch! 0 psi, didn't move the needle a millimeter! 2-4? They were getting between 160-170! Great! Cylinder 1, though? Bupkiss! I suppose it could be a few things, but please correct me if I'm wrong... One, new piston rings got stuck or something, and they're not doing anything now... or two, maybe the timing DID jump and did something wonky to the valves? I feel like I should be getting SOME compression if it were the rings. However, it was at least starting (until I changed the ignition coil) for a few seconds before, whereas now it's not at all. Timing is rock solid now; everything is moving like it's supposed to as far as the belts and pistons are concerned. Yeesh... I do not want to take the head off again, but I reckon that's gonna be the next step, huh? I guess the silver lining is that a bent valve isn't as horrible of a fix as taking out a piston to redo the rings... Let me know any thoughts before I tackle this job. Hopefully it stays sunny for a few days so I can make this happen ASAP!
Old 02-28-2023, 08:03 PM
  #44  
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With Zero psi on Cylinder One...

Before you remove the head... Do a leak test.

Put Cylinder #1 at TDC so both valves are closed, before you do this test.

You can probably pinpoint where the leak is. You can remove the Schrader valve from the compression tester hose, then remove the gauge from the other end of the hose. Screw it into the spark plug hole and connect it to shop air. Don't blow 90 psi in there, it will probably turn the engine. Turn the regulator down a lot lower, maybe 10-15 psi, just high enough that you can hear air hissing. When the shop air is flowing, go listen at the following locations for air hissing:

1) Tailpipe -- If you hear it here, you have a leak at the exhaust valve. Bent valve or burnt valve.

2) Intake -- unhook the J Boot at the throttle body, open the butterfly throttle valve. If you hear hissing, air is getting past intake valve. Likely bent a valve.

3) Oil cap -- take off the oil filler cap. Hear hissing? Air getting past rings. Could be a broken ring, or very unlikely on a refreshed engine -- worn rings.

4) Radiator -- look for bubbles. See bubbles? Air escaping past head gasket into coolant jackets.

You certainly don't have to do this test. But it will tell you the failure point before disassembly on a zero psi cylinder.

This is the shortest video I could find (only 5 minutes) where they are doing what I described above. (No need to remove valve cover like in the video, just find Top Dead Center for #1)

Old 03-01-2023, 09:35 AM
  #45  
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caleb, as @Chalt says, a "leak down test" is the next step. You can buy a leak down tester from Amazon for $32. It will be fine for what you need. Or you can probably get one as a free rental at the auto parts store. So shop air is going to be a problem if you are parked on the street. I might suggest you use the pressure in your spare tire to help do the test. You'll need to rig up an adapter hose that goes from Schrader valve at the tire to quick disconnect at the tester. It won't take much air to do the test. The leak tester has a pressure regulator that you throttle down to a low psi number. Like 10.

Alternatively, you can probably identify a valve that is not seating just by putting a proper size hose into the spark plug hole and blowing. Yes, you might get some strange looks but the price and hassle factor is very low. Test a known good cylinder also, just so you understand the differences.

Knowing what you are dealing with will be invaluable. BTW, I can't imagine a scenario where the rings are the problem, unless you just left them out entirely!



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