If you're running a squared setup, what width did you go with and how do you like it?
11-21-2022, 07:50 PM
#1
If you're running a squared setup, what width did you go with and how do you like it?
I've read many claims that a squared setup (all four rims/tires are equal width) results in better dynamics by addressing the car's tendency to push during aggressive cornering. If you've made the switch, what size are you running and do you think it has introduced any beneficial oversteer compared to stock?
11-21-2022, 09:12 PM
#2
Three Wheelin'
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My setup, which I just posted in another thread are early offset (~23et) 8s in the rear, late offset (~52et) 8s in the front (car is an 89 S2). I am running stock sway bars F/R and 400lb front/650lb rear springs (coilovers with rear TB delete). This setup was inspired by Tim Comeau from his Porsche 944RS video and I can say that this setup feels great.
On the autox course, the car rotates well and feels very neutral balanced, especially in tighter hairpin turns where you are braking hard on the approach. In more sweeping corners, the rear end has a tendency to want to come out when accelerating out of corners but still easy to correct and "hold" it on the edge to keep it from sliding too much. I find it extremely fun to drive with this setup. Prior to this I was running 8" square late offset D90 setup which behaved similarly, so a square late offset setup should also work well.
Compared to when I was running 7s in the front, the car pushed quite bad. Changing up the rear spring rates helped a bit as well. I experimented with 300/500 lb springs, but ultimately was happier with a stiffer 400/650 pairing (in the video Tim is running 350/500 I believe). Regardless of the spring rates I do think 8" front wheels made the largest impact on removing understeer. As others have noted, its believed Porsche put 7" fronts as a safety feature to force understeer, and that running 8s, even on a factory car, is really key to unlocking more potential out of the car.
So yes, I think in terms of performance handling on these cars on track or autox, a square setup works best. I cant say that I notice any difference on the street, since I never push the car hard enough to notice.
Link to Tim's video (thanks Tim):
On the autox course, the car rotates well and feels very neutral balanced, especially in tighter hairpin turns where you are braking hard on the approach. In more sweeping corners, the rear end has a tendency to want to come out when accelerating out of corners but still easy to correct and "hold" it on the edge to keep it from sliding too much. I find it extremely fun to drive with this setup. Prior to this I was running 8" square late offset D90 setup which behaved similarly, so a square late offset setup should also work well.
Compared to when I was running 7s in the front, the car pushed quite bad. Changing up the rear spring rates helped a bit as well. I experimented with 300/500 lb springs, but ultimately was happier with a stiffer 400/650 pairing (in the video Tim is running 350/500 I believe). Regardless of the spring rates I do think 8" front wheels made the largest impact on removing understeer. As others have noted, its believed Porsche put 7" fronts as a safety feature to force understeer, and that running 8s, even on a factory car, is really key to unlocking more potential out of the car.
So yes, I think in terms of performance handling on these cars on track or autox, a square setup works best. I cant say that I notice any difference on the street, since I never push the car hard enough to notice.
Link to Tim's video (thanks Tim):
Last edited by walfreyydo; 11-21-2022 at 09:47 PM.
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AkechiMotors (11-21-2022)
11-21-2022, 10:10 PM
#3
My setup, which I just posted in another thread are early offset (~23et) 8s in the rear, late offset (~52et) 8s in the front (car is an 89 S2). I am running stock sway bars F/R and 400lb front/650lb rear springs (coilovers with rear TB delete). This setup was inspired by Tim Comeau from his Porsche 944RS video and I can say that this setup feels great.
On the autox course, the car rotates well and feels very neutral balanced, especially in tighter hairpin turns where you are braking hard on the approach. In more sweeping corners, the rear end has a tendency to want to come out when accelerating out of corners but still easy to correct and "hold" it on the edge to keep it from sliding too much. I find it extremely fun to drive with this setup. Prior to this I was running 8" square late offset D90 setup which behaved similarly, so a square late offset setup should also work well.
Compared to when I was running 7s in the front, the car pushed quite bad. Changing up the rear spring rates helped a bit as well. I experimented with 300/500 lb springs, but ultimately was happier with a stiffer 400/650 pairing (in the video Tim is running 350/500 I believe). Regardless of the spring rates I do think 8" front wheels made the largest impact on removing understeer. As others have noted, its believed Porsche put 7" fronts as a safety feature to force understeer, and that running 8s, even on a factory car, is really key to unlocking more potential out of the car.
So yes, I think in terms of performance handling on these cars on track or autox, a square setup works best. I cant say that I notice any difference on the street, since I never push the car hard enough to notice.
Link to Tim's video (thanks Tim):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t7UG3kQPtk4
On the autox course, the car rotates well and feels very neutral balanced, especially in tighter hairpin turns where you are braking hard on the approach. In more sweeping corners, the rear end has a tendency to want to come out when accelerating out of corners but still easy to correct and "hold" it on the edge to keep it from sliding too much. I find it extremely fun to drive with this setup. Prior to this I was running 8" square late offset D90 setup which behaved similarly, so a square late offset setup should also work well.
Compared to when I was running 7s in the front, the car pushed quite bad. Changing up the rear spring rates helped a bit as well. I experimented with 300/500 lb springs, but ultimately was happier with a stiffer 400/650 pairing (in the video Tim is running 350/500 I believe). Regardless of the spring rates I do think 8" front wheels made the largest impact on removing understeer. As others have noted, its believed Porsche put 7" fronts as a safety feature to force understeer, and that running 8s, even on a factory car, is really key to unlocking more potential out of the car.
So yes, I think in terms of performance handling on these cars on track or autox, a square setup works best. I cant say that I notice any difference on the street, since I never push the car hard enough to notice.
Link to Tim's video (thanks Tim):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t7UG3kQPtk4
I have an S2 as well, and was thinking of 8's; I guess the alternative could be 7's all around, but as you point out, it's believed 7's up front is what makes the car push so much.
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AkechiMotors (11-22-2022)
11-22-2022, 08:53 AM
#5
Addict
Rennlist Member
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Absolutely square; it's appropriate to the weight balance of the car. On our full-race 924, we're actually only a touch rear-heavy, maybe 2%. Countless other changes from stock (springs, bars, dampers and bushings), but we run 225/45-15 or, these days, for cost, Spec Miata takeoffs at 205/55015 - we're limited to a 6" rim in ITB.
I wouldn't be real excited about a non-square setup on a 944 unless it's pushing a substantial amount of power, like 300+...
I wouldn't be real excited about a non-square setup on a 944 unless it's pushing a substantial amount of power, like 300+...
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AkechiMotors (11-22-2022)
11-22-2022, 09:45 AM
#6
Drifting
After many attempts at trying to get my 944 NA to rotate with 7" front wheels and 8" rear wheels, it was a failure, just understeer.
My setup is all square 8x15 wheels, 400 lb/in front springs and 31 mm hollow rear TB. Front anti-roll bar is 25.4 mm MO30 and rear anti-roll bar is 19 mm 3 point adjustable. All connections are rigid except the drop link for the front sway bar.
The front wheels have a 1" section added so the foot print is wider and the rear wheels are Fuchs.
It is amazing with fantastic rotation in slow corners. My shocks are ANZE, aka Penske, double adjustable w/o remote reservoirs.
My setup is all square 8x15 wheels, 400 lb/in front springs and 31 mm hollow rear TB. Front anti-roll bar is 25.4 mm MO30 and rear anti-roll bar is 19 mm 3 point adjustable. All connections are rigid except the drop link for the front sway bar.
The front wheels have a 1" section added so the foot print is wider and the rear wheels are Fuchs.
It is amazing with fantastic rotation in slow corners. My shocks are ANZE, aka Penske, double adjustable w/o remote reservoirs.
Last edited by T&T Racing; 11-22-2022 at 09:48 AM.
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AkechiMotors (11-22-2022)
11-22-2022, 10:14 AM
#7
My setup, which I just posted in another thread are early offset (~23et) 8s in the rear, late offset (~52et) 8s in the front (car is an 89 S2). I am running stock sway bars F/R and 400lb front/650lb rear springs (coilovers with rear TB delete). This setup was inspired by Tim Comeau from his Porsche 944RS video and I can say that this setup feels great.
On the autox course, the car rotates well and feels very neutral balanced, especially in tighter hairpin turns where you are braking hard on the approach. In more sweeping corners, the rear end has a tendency to want to come out when accelerating out of corners but still easy to correct and "hold" it on the edge to keep it from sliding too much. I find it extremely fun to drive with this setup. Prior to this I was running 8" square late offset D90 setup which behaved similarly, so a square late offset setup should also work well.
Compared to when I was running 7s in the front, the car pushed quite bad. Changing up the rear spring rates helped a bit as well. I experimented with 300/500 lb springs, but ultimately was happier with a stiffer 400/650 pairing (in the video Tim is running 350/500 I believe). Regardless of the spring rates I do think 8" front wheels made the largest impact on removing understeer. As others have noted, its believed Porsche put 7" fronts as a safety feature to force understeer, and that running 8s, even on a factory car, is really key to unlocking more potential out of the car.
So yes, I think in terms of performance handling on these cars on track or autox, a square setup works best. I cant say that I notice any difference on the street, since I never push the car hard enough to notice.
Link to Tim's video (thanks Tim):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t7UG3kQPtk4
On the autox course, the car rotates well and feels very neutral balanced, especially in tighter hairpin turns where you are braking hard on the approach. In more sweeping corners, the rear end has a tendency to want to come out when accelerating out of corners but still easy to correct and "hold" it on the edge to keep it from sliding too much. I find it extremely fun to drive with this setup. Prior to this I was running 8" square late offset D90 setup which behaved similarly, so a square late offset setup should also work well.
Compared to when I was running 7s in the front, the car pushed quite bad. Changing up the rear spring rates helped a bit as well. I experimented with 300/500 lb springs, but ultimately was happier with a stiffer 400/650 pairing (in the video Tim is running 350/500 I believe). Regardless of the spring rates I do think 8" front wheels made the largest impact on removing understeer. As others have noted, its believed Porsche put 7" fronts as a safety feature to force understeer, and that running 8s, even on a factory car, is really key to unlocking more potential out of the car.
So yes, I think in terms of performance handling on these cars on track or autox, a square setup works best. I cant say that I notice any difference on the street, since I never push the car hard enough to notice.
Link to Tim's video (thanks Tim):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t7UG3kQPtk4
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11-22-2022, 01:36 PM
#8
Rennlist Member
I'm surprised there hasn't been more discussion about tire size vs wheel size in this thread.
When you guys say above that 8" square all around made a big difference in reducing understeer and improving rotation, can I assume that moving up from 7" front to 8" front also meant wider tires in the front (to match the rear)?
Do you think you could run 225/50s square tires on 7" front and 8" rear wheels and get similar results?
-Bill
When you guys say above that 8" square all around made a big difference in reducing understeer and improving rotation, can I assume that moving up from 7" front to 8" front also meant wider tires in the front (to match the rear)?
Do you think you could run 225/50s square tires on 7" front and 8" rear wheels and get similar results?
-Bill
11-22-2022, 03:20 PM
#10
Three Wheelin'
Join Date: Oct 2021
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11-22-2022, 03:25 PM
#11
Three Wheelin'
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Running a square 7” setup will decrease the cars handling, but if thats not a concern it should be fine (might look goofy because they are so skinny).
I definitely recommend 8s all around on these cars if you are looking to stay with oem wheels
Last edited by walfreyydo; 11-22-2022 at 03:29 PM.
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AkechiMotors (11-22-2022)
11-22-2022, 06:03 PM
#12
Racer
For autocross/track use, I run 17x8.5 Boxster rear wheels (+52 offset) at all four corners with 255/40. Very balanced handling and grip, but heavier input is needed at the front and tramlines with the negative camber. For street, I run 17x8.5 ESM 004 (+35 offset) with 225/45 and 245/40. Still balanced but lighter feeling and more noticeable slip angle from front and rear, so to me, more fun on twisty roads.
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AkechiMotors (11-22-2022)
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AkechiMotors (11-22-2022)
11-22-2022, 07:26 PM
#14
So just generally wondering what wheel is being used that is 8x15".
11-23-2022, 05:27 PM
#15
Unaffiliated
I don't know if this will help but I thought it was a cool summary of factory wheels made in our era and what they fit.
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