Riff

Zone 1 will be held in Ayer, MA (Devens, my home AX track ) I might actually be able to make it this year.....

Cheers

RedlineMan

Hey All;

Experienced, sound, direct advice is obvious for all to see.

944CS - since you didn't offer much info, and didn't mention coilovers, I didn't mention them directly either.

It sounds like to me you have more pressing concerns than upgrading your suspension... like your education. If I were you, I would leave the car alone, assuming it is in decent repair. Right now the car will be well balanced, even if the suspension is worn out. Why screw that up to no particular purpose?

It would serve no real purpose to do only one end of the car. From experience I can tell you without doubt that the result of your thinking would not be pleasant or effective. I would suggest you wait until you have the money and time to do a complete revision of the suspension. If you do not think of suspensions as a system, you won't have anything that works like one.



Upgrade it all in kind, or leave it alone. That is the best advice ANYONE can offer.

Regards - JH

tifosiman

Thanks for the nasty PM John. In keeping with the forum bylaws, I will not post it here, but rather forward it on to JohnD.

Regards,

Jeremy

M758

I agree with John and the rest. Wait till you have it all.

My 83 autocross car has stock suspension and is of stock weight. In fact is has dead shocks, but in spite of that is very good to drive. Sure it pitches and wallows alot due to shocks, but since they are evenly dead the car actually has a very nice balance to it. Thus I can drive around the limitations and still have fun. If it fix just the fronr the resulting understeer would suck so bad I would not be having and fun. So I am just going to wait until I can do both front and rear shocks. This should keep the balance and add back some body control in the transitions that is this sorely needs.

M758

Oh... To throw an even bigger monkey wrench into this I know of west coast 944 race prep shop that actually recommends 400 lbs front springs with stock rear torsion bars. I think he uses a small front sway bar and big rear one to even things up a bit. Honestly I have NO IDEA how that does not cause massive understeer, but the guy used race a 924S and was quite fast.

So... yeah 400 lbs front with stock rear is crazy, but not as crazy as you might think. Of course to John point it is really all a part of this guys "system" which probably includs adjusments to aligment and ride height.

Z-man

Maybe the guy likes understeer?!?!
-Z.

M758

I guess he understeered his way to 3.5 seconds per lap faster at willow than me at willow while carrying 200-300lbs more weight.


I agree that it should understeer like pig!

tifosiman

And, let me add to this that I have informed the local SW Ohio guys of your outstanding commentary in your PM. I doubt that any of them would ever want to buy from you now. I can't fathom any business sending PM's like that to any of their customers, whether they are "direct", "indirect", or "potential" customers. Profanity and insults do not good customer relations make.

Regards,

Jeremy

RedlineMan

Hey Jeremy;

Who was it complaining about diatribes?...

I took it private, as any sensible, mature person who had been called out by someone else with no provocation SHOULD do. I can do nothing about the fact that you now see fit to continue to take pot shots at me in public. What this points out for all to see is that you are not capable of finishing things that you start, mano et mano, but instead cut and run for the shelter of the nearest skirt

Rest assured that nothing you can do will sully my reputation with anyone of intellect or substance.

I beg the pardon of the productive members of Rennlist.

Z-man

Ok I think it is time for settling this. Tifosiman vs. Redlineman. You pick the cars & the track. 10 laps or whoever is left standing in the end. NO 13/13 rule, and BYOFE (Bring your own fire extinguisher)

Results at 11.


-Z-man.

Dales944

So, you're saying that no matter what's in the PM you sent to Tifo, if anybody feels it was wrong, they must not be a person of intellect or substance???

On top of that, you're apologizing to the "productive" members? So, anyone who's productive couldn't possibly be offended by profanity and insults?

I think maybe you should rest assured that profanity and insults may very well sully your reputation, especially with peope of intellect and substance.

When I first read the original post, followed by your initial response, I was embarrassed for the "productive" members of Rennlist.

Please don't send me a nasty PM, I'd much rather you explain yourself in public - since you feel potential customers (i.e., people of intellect and substance) enjoy profanity and insults.

Thanks,

Dale.

MTM

Not to hijack this thread or anything, but check out this picture:



Is that a clean looking cargo area or what?

Z-man

MTM: All I can say is WOW. I mean WOW.

-Z-man.

(Got any more distracting pics?)

tifosiman

OK John, I am going to type this slow and deliberate, in a way that you can understand.

The initial post was this:

“I wanna get lowering springs that are also in the 400-500lb range....i think 440 is a popular number......my question is where do i get them and how much do they cost? just front springs nothing with the rear yet”

2 simple questions. Where and how much? For all you know the guy could be Derek Bell. You didn’t answer his questions. Did you even really read his post, or was it another reason for you to wax endlessly about your suspension knowledge? There certainly is nothing wrong with being helpful, but don’t put the cart before the horse. All this guy needed was some information. When you post a question on this forum, don’t you just want an answer?

To respond to one of your comments you made to me outside of this forum, I did answer his question. The paragon kit is a what is called an adjustable ride height kit. Our cars have “coil-overs” on the front to begin with, albeit not adjustable. So what I suggested fit his needs. So please don’t try to educate me on something that I already understand.

I am sorry that you don’t appreciate my commentary about your roll bar. I feel it is a good piece of kit. But I have emailed you twice about the issue that I have had, and received no help from you. No, I did not purchase it from you directly. The only reason I didn’t is that you came acrossed as brash and rude when I asked that you ship it some other form other than Greyhound. I have had bad experiences with them. I even offered to pay extra for the shipping. Granted, my mentioning it here was somewhat out of line, but frankly your rudeness in this post (and many others) and distinct lack of true helpfulness brought that out. In hindsight maybe that was a bit over the top, but it pales by comparison to your PM.

And let’s talk about that PM. Please give me permission to post that here, so that all may read. That would really clear a lot of things up. Do you really think that my avatars are that bad? They are just a joking way of supporting this site. That’s all.

I’m not hiding behind any skirts, as you say. Sending someone a message like that is just wrong. That’s not doing it “man to man”. “Man to man” would be a PM that said something to the fact of “Hey, I don’t appreciate that, why did you state that, maybe I was a little heated myself, let’s work this out, yadda yadda yadda.”

Do you really think that I am not “productive”? What does that mean, exactly? I try to give back to this forum as much as possible. I don’t need to post any examples, if you need them, ask others. Take a good hard look at yourself, John. It occurs to me that as someone pedaling their wares here, you should sign up as a site sponsor. And also have a better candor when posting. Maybe before attempting to help someone, you should read their entire post, take a step back, and decide how best to do that. Certainly you are full of some good knowledge, and can offer a lot of help to others.

This whole thing has been blown out of proportion, mainly due to your heated PM and lack of candor. I’m probably doing it no service here in responding, but I also feel that there were some things that needed to be said. Politely, without any name calling or profanity.

You can choose to reply politely and work this out, or rudely, or not at all.

Regards,

Jeremy

Dave

Well stated Tifo, very diplomatic. You have also (earlier) mentioned an issue with this product and I have yet to hear a response of any kind from the manufacturer, resolution of this issue would be a nice change of pace from what we have seen lately.

_____________
Dave
If you posts use this space to advertise your products,
you should be a Rennlist sponsor!