Although I did horrible, my daughter and I had a great time at the Atlanta Auto X. Yeah - she did better then I did. I really sucked. Anyway I have been thinking about what mods I can do to our 944 that make sense.

The car is a 85.5 944 NA, that will be primarily street driven except for every opportunity we get to do an Auto X. I would appreciate feedback as to what "smart mods" can be done to the car. Only parameters I would like to put forth are that I don't want to spend a ton of cash and the car still needs to be street-able. So if there any bang for the buck mods I would really like to hear about them.

I was considering tires, maybe suspension, and brakes. From what I have been reading there is not too much you can do to the motor, that is cost effective, correct?

Any feedback on a good set of skins (tires) that could hold up well for auto x and street driving would be appreciated.

 

First thing to modify is the driver. Go and hit up a couple of Driver's Education events.

BB.

 

Yep: Seat time is the best mod going!

After that, MORE SEAT TIME!

- Z-man.

 

I thrid that.... Seat Time

In my local PCA events I am one of the fastest street tired cars. This is in a stock 83 with bad shocks and an unknown aligment.

The one "mod" you may want to do is just make sure the car is functioning properly. Make sure the brakes, shocks, tires and engine is top shape. I replace the completly worn shocks on my 84 daily driver and the handling improvement was substantial. Not better that stock, but alot better than before. Even so seat time is biggest factor. My 83 pitches leans and rolls all over the place,yet still does quite well be cause I have been autocrossing for 5 years and racing for 3. This makes the biggest differecence.

Once you are good and have the car working in top shape the biggest speed gain are R-compound tires. Don't do these right away as you will learn MUCH more on street tires.

Beyond that I think 944's can be quite quick even on a stock suspension.


BTW.... While I could autocross my race car (I used to do this alot) I prefer to autocross my stock 83 on street tires. I am doing events with my Fiancee and teaching her so street tires are the best. I use Yoko ES100's. Good price and solid autocross performance. Even on street tires the car is blast to drive and it is much less work than my race car. No trailer or tire changes. We just show up, unload a couple things, have fun, repack and drive home.

 

OK Bill, you sound like you're already hooked (only takes 1 event for most of us), welcome to the addiction.
The best place to spend your cash is entry fees, seat time will make a bigger difference, by far, than anything else. Other than that, I don't recommend a beginner do a lot of mods, it will slow down the learning curve. Let me explain, your times will improve as you get a feel for how the car reacts on the course, if you are making modifications to the car between events that reaction is changing and it will be harder for you to get a feel for it. You would be much better off running 5-10 events completely stock before you even think about changing much.
That said, it is a good idea to make sure everything is as it should be before doing too much autocrossing, worn out parts may show up fast. Check all your bushings and other rubber parts for wear and replace as needed, stock replacements are fine at this point and are prefered if the car is to be used on the street. Check your brakes, fresh fluid can do a world of good for you and when the pads go you could upgrade a little (no hurry, stock is still pretty good on these cars). Shocks are a good upgrade once you've gotten some seat time, I like my Koni yellows , but again, if your current shocks are working well there's no need to replace them yet (seat time first).
Good tires are a big help, I like the Bridgestone Potenza RE-750, good bang for the buck. Tires are a good first mod, by the time you use them up you might be ready for r-compounds (if that's the way you want to go, cross that bridge when you get to it).
You also need to look at the class rules before you modify anything, it's way too easy to modify youself into a faster class than you want to be in. Class rules vary locally and between clubs, a little research in the rule book will help a lot. Look at it this way, run a few events stock, get a feel for the car, while doing this you have time to catch up on what the car needs and read the rules that will let you know what mods are allowed. In a few months you'll know from your own experience what mods you want/need.

Sway bars help too

 

Damn, there were no replies when I started typing! the fact that seat time keeps coming up should tell you something!

 

Dave you type s Lo w

 

how about when you do some mods....

chip it..
paragon ride height coil over kit w/ 200lb springs
sway bars/ bushings
throttle "wheel"
stainless brake lines/ blue fluid-cus its cooool
shave some weight

track time!!!

 

M758, matches the way I drove last season!

XS, that's exactly why I mention reading the class rules, in NNJR-PCA, there are 2 things on that list that would bump you from S3 (great place for a rookie in an NA) to M1 (not a prayer for any NA unless you are a much better driver than anyone else there) Nitrous and a supercharger would also move you into this class.

 

Sorry xsboost, but. . .
Well, that really won't make much of a difference, especially with an n/a. However, it can raise the rev limiter which may make a difference on courses where you may be at redline 1/2 way down a straight.
Probably too heavy for autox! While 200lb springs are great for the track, there's not enough force on the autox course to get them to compress enough! Like Dave said, this will bump you out of stock class!
Need to be careful: some clubs (SCCA, for example) may put you in street prepared class, especially if a stand-alone sway bar upgrade was not on the options list (which is most of the time)
Now that I would definately recommend. No hp gains, but a better responding throttle!
I highly recommend NOT getting stainless steet braided brake lines! There is no way of telling if the lines INSIDE the braides are cracked or leaking!
Again, you need to be very careful doing this: shed some weight and you may be up against highly modified cars, making your car extremely uncompetitive. (in NNJR PCA, for example, shaving weight will put you in Modified class, where just about anything goes!)


So, why the hangup with staying in stock classes? A couple of reasons:
1. As a newbie, modifying your car won't really make much of a difference in your times. So, why waste the money.
2. As you start to develop your autox ability, you will start to realize what YOU like in a car. Once you understand and have a feel for what the car is doing, you will be able to make modifications that will help YOUR DRIVING STYLE! Believe it or not, not all mods work well with all driving styles.
3. As I said before, once you get bumped out of stock classes, there's always someone running against you with deeper pockets, more mods, and an unfair advantage. You want to stay away from that as much as possible.
4. IMHO, running in STOCK classes in autocross is the purest form of autocrossing.

Sorry for rambling,
-Z-man.

PS: I still run in stock (S7) class NNJR PCA and in Zone 1 PCA!

 

I have to disagree about trying to stay in stock classes and all that. I modify my car as I like with no regard for the class systems. Boost is fun, why would I want to limit my fun factor on the street by running a stock boost control setup to stay in stock classes?

Personally all the class systems do for me is make it easy for me to compare my times. I don't really care about the competitive aspect of it very much.

So yes, I'm one of those people that runs up against the very modified cars in a not-so-modified car.

With that said, I would recommend keeping the car stock for a little bit so that you can see what you have before you start changing it. After that, I would only perform mods that would fine tune the handling balance of your car. A rear sway is a great first suspension mod (and I'm sure Zoltan would agree).

The driver is among the cheapest and by far the most beneficial thing to 'mod'. Seat time is the best way to mod the driver.

 

i see that Z-man is opposed to SS - brake lines. anyone else share his sentiment? i was planning on the upgrade myself and i had never heard anyone speak out against SS lines.

 

Zoltan's thoughts on SS lines do make sense.

But the lines are contained by the braided SS and a plastic/rubber coating over the SS (assuming the lines are DOT approved)...so I expect it will be a very long time before you have to worry about the lines deteriorating.

 

Thanks Adrial!
Under normal circumstances, the lines inside the SS casting should last a good long time. HOWEVER: what if there's a manufacturer's defect or a kink in the line, or the line rubs against something? It is harder to tell if the inner tubing is ok with SS lines!

If the purpose of getting SS lines is to prevent brake fade due to line expansion, then the better solution is brake management! Learn how to brake without over-heating the system, and you will be far better off! Not much of the fading occurs due to the lines expanding anyway.

Sure, the pros often use SS lines, but they also have more of a budget: most likely they toss the lines after a race or two, or they have a crew that can remove and imspect the lines. I don't have that kinda budget, nor time to do so! So, it is better for me to be able to inspect the lines easily: SS lines prevent me from doing that.

Sorry for rambling,
-Z.

 

Thanks for your time and details on the feedback. Well seat time it is. I need to see what other organizations in the southeast offer autocross beyond PCA.

I will change the tires at least the rears as they are not in great shape, not real bad but even if I were just street driving I would look to change them out soon anyway. Not looking to deal with tire changes at the track, so the tires will be street tires that would lend themselves well to autocross.

Don't misunderstand my post, I do want to keep the car stock. I just want to start out with a solid base, and was considering what other expendable items should be replaced.

One other point - I am real impressed with the handling of this car. There were other much newer non/Porsche cars there - Mitsu Evo, Honda Preludes, etc, and I must say the amount of body lean on those cars was way more then on the 20 year old 944! Very Impressive.