951 Block questions (How to proceed?)
11-06-2020, 06:29 PM
#16
Drifting
I’m not having this pointless internet qualification discussion.
I am positive you need to get this block and head stripped, cleaned and then take a lot of micrometer measurements before deciding. If you can’t it for yourself find someone that can.
Or you can just burn through money guessing.
If all of that is too complex, buy a refurbished longblock from a reputable Porsche shop. Or you can go used and roll the dice.
No one can evaluate this block and head until they are bare and clean, their proclaimed expertise is irrelevant until this happens.
Finding a good machine shop with a nice caustic hot tank = easy button for clean.
This thread is a pretty good example of why I stopped working on cars for money and only do my own junk for fun.
I am positive you need to get this block and head stripped, cleaned and then take a lot of micrometer measurements before deciding. If you can’t it for yourself find someone that can.
Or you can just burn through money guessing.
If all of that is too complex, buy a refurbished longblock from a reputable Porsche shop. Or you can go used and roll the dice.
No one can evaluate this block and head until they are bare and clean, their proclaimed expertise is irrelevant until this happens.
Finding a good machine shop with a nice caustic hot tank = easy button for clean.
This thread is a pretty good example of why I stopped working on cars for money and only do my own junk for fun.
11-06-2020, 07:08 PM
#17
Race Car
There was a time when opening this up would have resulted in me just tossing and cutting losses (I bought cars for parts).
I once bought an 88 944 that died crossing a shallow creek and was victim to a flash flood before it could be moved....., sequel to A River Runs Through It.
Pistons had to be beat out from the bottom.
The block is in my son's race car right now.
Sooner or later in the future, these pics will show a decent find for refurbishment as these parts become more scarce.
Do as Spencer described, poke, scrape the block coolant passages (under the head), the oil housing area will clean up no problem and the water pump area is no issue at all, easily cleaned.
Soda blasting will clean all of this up if hot tank won't.
Scrape the head thoroughly and then assess, I see portions where gasket is still stick.
There is no guarantee that you won't get a used engine that was close to this condition, had a head gasket slapped on at one point in it's life and called good.
See this as an opportunity, not a setback.
I once bought an 88 944 that died crossing a shallow creek and was victim to a flash flood before it could be moved....., sequel to A River Runs Through It.
Pistons had to be beat out from the bottom.
The block is in my son's race car right now.
Sooner or later in the future, these pics will show a decent find for refurbishment as these parts become more scarce.
Do as Spencer described, poke, scrape the block coolant passages (under the head), the oil housing area will clean up no problem and the water pump area is no issue at all, easily cleaned.
Soda blasting will clean all of this up if hot tank won't.
Scrape the head thoroughly and then assess, I see portions where gasket is still stick.
There is no guarantee that you won't get a used engine that was close to this condition, had a head gasket slapped on at one point in it's life and called good.
See this as an opportunity, not a setback.
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V2Rocket (11-06-2020)
11-06-2020, 07:09 PM
#18
Rennlist Member
Really? Am I testifying in court? Are you trying to voir dire me and determine my qualifications.
Fine, clean the damn thing. Measure the crank, rod ends, thrust, cylinders, don’t forget to check concentricity of the rods and bores, check the deck for warping, and the rods and inspect everything for cracks. You can magnaflux the block and crank but will use dye penetrant on the aluminum head.
Once you have all these measurements, you can decide what to keep, toss, and decide how to proceed with the rebuild.
You can find photos, videos or read a book to
learn hot to use an inside micrometer, a steel rule and feeler gages to take most of these measurements. Using simple calipers would give a rough idea, but they are far less accurate. You can get snap micrometers and use the calipers to measure them (less cost), but not as good as a nice micrometer set.
Again, find a good machine shop, and they will have all of this. One that rebuilds engines probably also has a hot tank.....
I’m out of this one.... too much aggravation for telling someone to get the thing cleaned so it can be checked properly.
Fine, clean the damn thing. Measure the crank, rod ends, thrust, cylinders, don’t forget to check concentricity of the rods and bores, check the deck for warping, and the rods and inspect everything for cracks. You can magnaflux the block and crank but will use dye penetrant on the aluminum head.
Once you have all these measurements, you can decide what to keep, toss, and decide how to proceed with the rebuild.
You can find photos, videos or read a book to
learn hot to use an inside micrometer, a steel rule and feeler gages to take most of these measurements. Using simple calipers would give a rough idea, but they are far less accurate. You can get snap micrometers and use the calipers to measure them (less cost), but not as good as a nice micrometer set.
Again, find a good machine shop, and they will have all of this. One that rebuilds engines probably also has a hot tank.....
I’m out of this one.... too much aggravation for telling someone to get the thing cleaned so it can be checked properly.
Last edited by AnthonyGS; 11-06-2020 at 07:10 PM.
11-06-2020, 07:36 PM
#20
I doubt you'll find one but beware of any shop that would be willing to put an aluminum block in their caustic hot tank.
What needs to be checked first (opinion, not advice) in this block is the extent of etching (cavities of missing aluminum) in the cooling jacket at or near the sealing surface of the cylinder head interface. While this type of damage is repairable with skilled welding, it can be costly and may steer you toward a better starting place.
What needs to be checked first (opinion, not advice) in this block is the extent of etching (cavities of missing aluminum) in the cooling jacket at or near the sealing surface of the cylinder head interface. While this type of damage is repairable with skilled welding, it can be costly and may steer you toward a better starting place.
11-06-2020, 08:12 PM
#21
Rainman
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Shops have specific solutions for aluminum blocks, not hot tanking, sometimes called cold tanking.
Depending where you are it could be a good chemical or a hot agitated bath of soapy water (works really well actually).
Cleaning for $75 or so at any shop to better assess condition is a great first step here, and even if this block IS junk it's not going to be a significant percentage of the overall bill to put another good engine in.
Depending where you are it could be a good chemical or a hot agitated bath of soapy water (works really well actually).
Cleaning for $75 or so at any shop to better assess condition is a great first step here, and even if this block IS junk it's not going to be a significant percentage of the overall bill to put another good engine in.
11-07-2020, 09:00 PM
#22
Race Car
$400+shipping.
Another $100, I'll throw in the 88 NA cam (slight 944T upgrade)
11-08-2020, 01:06 AM
#23
Rennlist Member
Really? Am I testifying in court? Are you trying to voir dire me and determine my qualifications.
Fine, clean the damn thing. Measure the crank, rod ends, thrust, cylinders, don’t forget to check concentricity of the rods and bores, check the deck for warping, and the rods and inspect everything for cracks. You can magnaflux the block and crank but will use dye penetrant on the aluminum head.
Once you have all these measurements, you can decide what to keep, toss, and decide how to proceed with the rebuild.
You can find photos, videos or read a book to
learn hot to use an inside micrometer, a steel rule and feeler gages to take most of these measurements. Using simple calipers would give a rough idea, but they are far less accurate. You can get snap micrometers and use the calipers to measure them (less cost), but not as good as a nice micrometer set.
Again, find a good machine shop, and they will have all of this. One that rebuilds engines probably also has a hot tank.....
I’m out of this one.... too much aggravation for telling someone to get the thing cleaned so it can be checked properly.
Fine, clean the damn thing. Measure the crank, rod ends, thrust, cylinders, don’t forget to check concentricity of the rods and bores, check the deck for warping, and the rods and inspect everything for cracks. You can magnaflux the block and crank but will use dye penetrant on the aluminum head.
Once you have all these measurements, you can decide what to keep, toss, and decide how to proceed with the rebuild.
You can find photos, videos or read a book to
learn hot to use an inside micrometer, a steel rule and feeler gages to take most of these measurements. Using simple calipers would give a rough idea, but they are far less accurate. You can get snap micrometers and use the calipers to measure them (less cost), but not as good as a nice micrometer set.
Again, find a good machine shop, and they will have all of this. One that rebuilds engines probably also has a hot tank.....
I’m out of this one.... too much aggravation for telling someone to get the thing cleaned so it can be checked properly.
11-08-2020, 09:23 AM
#24
Drifting
All of the blueprint measurements can be taken without cleaning the block. The block gasket surface can be cleaned with used gray scotch pads and lacquer thinner or acetone outside, using nitrite gloves to clean it to see condition of surface and measure for warp. If removing aluminum, then stop. Do everything by hand, no power scotch pads on a grinder
11-08-2020, 10:12 AM
#25
Drifting
Honestly , don’t waste your time and money on that engine ... check the Pelican classifieds , Britain Smith is selling a complete 951 engine for $450 dollars , he’s
a longtime member so i’m guessing it would be a smart buy ...
Everybody’s an expert here but unless they’ve built a few engines , take it with a grain of salt !
Just sayin ...
Cheers
Phil
a longtime member so i’m guessing it would be a smart buy ...
Everybody’s an expert here but unless they’ve built a few engines , take it with a grain of salt !
Just sayin ...
Cheers
Phil