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I'll say one more time, get a stethescope or a rubber hose and really check carefully as to the source of the noise. Noise sources are tricky and can really fool you. I can offer many war stories. Your diagnostic efforts are free!
If you are learning how to wrench, I would keep it as stock as possible. And while $1600 may sound like a lot of money, get a quote on a clutch disc and pressure plate. Last time I bought one they were in the $800 range. Pelican Parts is your closeest and best source for 944 parts is SoCal. And, in this world where a lot of kids can't drive a stick, the AT may actually help you out when/if you decide to sell it.
Getting off topic but when I take my stick shift cars in for the state inspection process every year, I litterally have to ask before we get started, is there someone here that can drive a stick? And the answer is generally no or just one guy in the crew of young men that seem to staff these places.
If the rubber drive damper has failed there will be plenty of evidence visible through the bell housing openings.
Here are examples of a good one and a failed one. In regard to using clutch parts as an alternative, I know that it has been done and there will be folks that say it's fine but after studying how the driveline is assembled, I was unable to conclude that the axial control of the driveshaft would be the same. There are specific dimensions given in the WSM for axial (longitudinal) location of the flex plate (transmission end) and the drive damper (engine end) which is retained with a circlip. Using a clutch disc would sacrifice this location and the driveshaft could be free to move axially. Does that make a difference? Possibly and in a number of ways including the torque converter, torque tube bearings and even the crankshaft thrust bearing.
My recommendation is look for the physical evidence from below. Check the exhaust sampling tube just behind the bellhousing while you are under the car as those can break loose and cause a similar racket. Replace what's broken with the correct parts.
OK, one war story about noises. My wife's 06 Cayman was making a pretty clear clunking noise under braking. Sounded to everyone like it was coming from the right front wheel area. Fortunately a mechanic at the local Porsche dealership determined the real cause. It was a dried up orange that had escaped her lunch bag and was under the passenger seat. Under braking it would roll forward and make the noise as it struck the forward part of the seat. The service manager says he has kept it on his shelf in his office to remind him to be very wary about first guesstimates on the origins of strange noises.
Too bad that there isn't a metal plate substitute with springs in it, to absorb the thrust like in a standard clutch disc, that could be bolted to the flywheel with the correct fittings welded into it that would line up with the driveshaft. This would eliminate the recurrence of failure of the rubber disc.Seems to me that a decent machine shop could build this for considerably less than 1600.00,and it would be pretty much a permanent fix. Just spitballin' here.
Last edited by Tiger03447; 10-19-2020 at 05:51 PM.
Too bad that there isn't a metal plate substitute with springs in it, to absorb the thrust like in a standard clutch disc, that could be bolted to the flywheel with the correct fittings welded into it that would line up with the driveshaft. This would eliminate the recurrence of failure of the rubber disc. Seems to me that a decent machine shop could build this for considerably less than 1600.00,and it would be pretty much a permanent fix. Just spitballin' here.
I've been reading up on this and it sounds like the parts list for the mod to remove the rubber damper includes the following parts list:
Flywheel
Clutch Disc
Pressure Plate
Starter Ring Gear
Manual Transmission Drive Shaft (hence the tube)
Torque Tube
If the rubber drive damper has failed there will be plenty of evidence visible through the bell housing openings.
Here are examples of a good one and a failed one. In regard to using clutch parts as an alternative, I know that it has been done and there will be folks that say it's fine but after studying how the driveline is assembled, I was unable to conclude that the axial control of the driveshaft would be the same. There are specific dimensions given in the WSM for axial (longitudinal) location of the flex plate (transmission end) and the drive damper (engine end) which is retained with a circlip. Using a clutch disc would sacrifice this location and the driveshaft could be free to move axially. Does that make a difference? Possibly and in a number of ways including the torque converter, torque tube bearings and even the crankshaft thrust bearing.
My recommendation is look for the physical evidence from below. Check the exhaust sampling tube just behind the bellhousing while you are under the car as those can break loose and cause a similar racket. Replace what's broken with the correct parts.
This seems like something that could be put in a jig and a polymer could be poured in to make a new one. Seems like such a silly weak point that hasn't been addressed other than to just buy more parts. I wanted to start collecting these and contracting our local engineering shop to help figure out a better solution.
Most domestic cars run a "flexplate" to support the ring gear and the torque converter. These, I think, would have to be a bit beefier to transmit the engine torque directly to the driveshaft, hence the spring recommendation. On domestic cars the trans is bolted directly to the engine and then to the output shaft. Usually, the flexplate has no springs in it. Neither did the VW truck clutches, but again, their transaxles were direct bolt-ups and the horsepower was considerably lower.
WELCOME to the "List"! Glad to have another early car owner on here. In addition to Clark's garage, for a first timer, I would also recommend a couple of other things. !. Get a Haynes manual for the car. It's a good primer and has lots of good pictures which I hope you'll never need. Be also advised that the 944's manufactured up until the mid 1985 are the same as ours. After that, the cars went through a radical change and almost nothing is the same. So be sure that when you are buying parts, that you are certain of the year. 2. Go to Ebay..and get a CD of the parts manual, called PET (German acronym) and the workshop manual. Both are well worth the $$ spent and are under 50 bucks. Pelican parts is a good parts source, but get braced..This is not a Chevy or Ford that you'll be wrenching on..Some parts are reasonable, some are astronomical. There are a lot of parts sources for these cars out there, so shop around. Porsche prices are always high (to me) but they always fit and are of excellent quality. Other sources, not so much, but are still good parts and will generally fit w/o modification.. Go into the R-list site and check for threads on what other people have done to and with their cars. There's a lot of insight here...Hope that you enjoy your new (to you) car.
As I mentioned, I got into this endeavor to learn how to work on a vehicle. I like the idea of keeping as much of the vehicle as original as possible, but there is something telling me that I should try and take on this manual flywheel, clutch conversion to take the damper problem off the table so to speak. It feels like I can get back on the road for a few hundred dollars instead of a a few thousand if I take this on myself. There is a great thread in a Pelican Parts forum where someone pulled this off in less than a week's time, and all while others in the forum were telling him that it wasn't possible, gotta love that feeling. Here are the highlights:
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gwass: I have a 944 auto and the rubber damper plate is very worn. Cost of replacing it is $1000. To much. Heard of a mod. get flywheel off a manual engine complete with clutch which has a spring damper in it. Off S/H engine. Has anyone done this? will I have to change the torque tube as well?
944 Ecology: There is no such mod.
gwass: Are you saying that it is not possible?
944 Ecology: If you spend enough time and money, you can put a man on the moon. Anything is possible. Not everything is cost effective. Why don't you try it yourself and report back???
gwass: Did not spent much money or time and did it. Flywheel and clutch off S/H engine. Fits in place of Damper plate and flywheel. No mods to the torque tube. Sweet as a nut and all for 50 dollars. Not enough to put a man on the moon but enough to get my Auto 944 spinning. Next project. Get man on the moon. Maybe one day?
944 Ecology: I'm impressed that you knocked this out in 5 days from query to completion. I don's suppose you have any pictures of the process, eh what?
gwass: Something approaching 25 hours on my back. Was well worth the trouble. Never gave it a thought about photos. But Clarkes Garage have photos of Transmission, rear suspension removal etc. Plus Pelican Parts Technical diagrams all help in removing the required bolts. Just looked upon it as another of life's challenges plus I can not afford to pay the going rate to do the job....
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Started 10-03-2007, 08:26 AM
Finished 10-09-2007, 08:03 AM
Yes, in this case, the wrong parts will take the same amount of time to install as the correct parts. The greater question would be if they performed seamlessly for another 30+ years, without causing damage to the transmission and engine.
Yes, in this case, the wrong parts will take the same amount of time to install as the correct parts. The greater question would be if they performed seamlessly for another 30+ years, without causing damage to the transmission and engine.
That's a good question, I do see that having this vehicle for another 30 year would be quite a feat, but challenge excepted. However, if I had to replace the transmission, I'm still less in parts cost than the damn damper
10-19-2020, 09:53 AM
